New DVC a done deal ...

Discussion in 'Walt Disney World News, Rumors and General Disc' started by See Post, Oct 3, 2010.

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    Originally Posted By GOB

    >> I honestly think that's the majority. Why doesn't Disney cater to that? Are there THAT many DVC fanbois?
    ---- Again, why is it so hard to separate the 2 ? Really- give it a rational try. Disney IS a business also- that point seemingly is hard to understand. There are no DVC fanbois- but there certainly are people who are willing to make a direct correlation between DVC spending and Park spending - separate ( but uniquely tied) entities. SHould Disney be spending more on the parks- emotion tells me yes, my experience there tells me I would like to see it, BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DVC MONIES BEING SPENT..geez Louise. Stopping building of DVC's will not free up more money for rides and attractions folks <<

    This. If anything, DVC is the cash cow for P&R. Besides the construction and design costs, members pay for everything else...upkeep, maintenance, you name it.

    Management these days seems much more concerned with getting the quick and easy profit and projects with the quickest ROI rather than investing that money into attractions that would provide long-term benefits. (See Golden Oak, DVC-palooza, declining quality of food and merchandise.)
     
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    Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

    vbadd, besides the money issue which I'll ignore because neither of us are going to budge on that one, the advent of DVC and the building of the multiple DVC resorts shows an obvious shift of focus for the company.

    They don't give 2 craps about making these parks better. Disney wants to be a land developer and time share king in Florida, rather than attempting to be the leader and innovator in the theme park community.

    What a disgrace.
     
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    Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer

    What Hokie Pokie said.
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    who doesn't but if you want to be a successful stockholder you'll want both because one has a higher cash flow right now.. otherwise you may want to not play the stockmarket- pixie dust really has no place there.
     
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    Originally Posted By leobloom

    You guys are wrong. Land development is magical and makes my heart tingle, even more than the hidden-Mickey urinals. I know when I think of my magical WDW memories, the first thing I think is, 'Golly gee, forget the parks, I wish they'd build more hotels.'
     
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    Originally Posted By leobloom

    >> who doesn't but if you want to be a successful stockholder you'll want both because one has a higher cash flow right now.. otherwise you may want to not play the stockmarket- pixie dust really has no place there. <<

    Are you saying 2010's version of capitalism is bad for magical magic and dreamy dreams?

    Wow, if true, I feel like the Mouse has lied to me. Not cool, Mouse.
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    vbadd, besides the money issue which I'll ignore because neither of us are going to budge on that one, the advent of DVC and the building of the multiple DVC resorts shows an obvious shift of focus for the company.

    They don't give 2 craps about making these parks better. Disney wants to be a land developer and time share king in Florida, rather than attempting to be the leader and innovator in the theme park community.

    What a disgrace.

    ---- sorry, I feel that is a simplistic approach to the issue.
    There is no trophy for being the largest developer of hotel /time share rooms, however with DVC there is the opportunity ( which they have taken) to try and become a more cash rich company- so that they are not always a borrower as they were for so long in the past ( which is one reason why stock prices never moved much- even with huge movie successes etc.) -

    AS much as I dislike a few Disney higher ups - to think they want to build time shares- or has been suggested would do so even if the parks weren't there is either misinformed or disengenuous.

    Do I wish they focused more on the parks yes - so focus your energies on those who are holding back there- to blame the DVC units who are bringing cash into the corporate fold makes zero sense. It reminds me a lot of the political commericals we are being bombarded with right now before mid term elections - they are mostly hyperbole, very little facts and the only way to make a point is to tear something/somebody else down.

    You may want to ignore the cash flow piece but reality says theme parks are not exactly high profit ventures. Your faves up the road aren't exactly rolling in cash - which is why ownership has been/ will be a continuing issue-
    the question is are theme parks sustainable from a profit standopoint going forward. The landscape is littered with chapter 11 filings and closed parks. AS the Hard Rock bunch how easy it is to make money with a theme park.

    So all the whining about DVC is really being done why. People here are intelligent enough to know there are many parts to mega corps- and sometimes a profitable venture allows for a company to carry something ti might not be able to on it's own. Not every line within major corps can stand on it's own..

    Maybe you want to see Disney make a decision as to whether theme parks can stand on their own or not- looking at past profit margins for that area- I really don't want that to happen. Major investors adding ( or like in the past taking out) Disney stock from their portfolio's - like pension plans, could care less about most individual elements of a corporation, the bottom line and past performance comes first. ( of course they look at the elements to make sure too many aren't going in the tak trend wise - or too much notbeing invested in low producers) -

    If you want any chance of future park upgrades, then elements like ESPN and DVC have to do well to carry lower producers first... shut off those revenue streams and no one is going to risk even more investment where you want it..
    unfortunately Disney IS a coproration - built on dreams but sustained on profits. Has the focus shifted more than many of us are comfortable with, maybe...but look around, these are not times to be wreckless either. A little more bling would be nice..let's focus on that- and not something that simply IS NOT the problem
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    Are you saying 2010's version of capitalism is bad for magical magic and dreamy dreams?

    Wow, if true, I feel like the Mouse has lied to me. Not cool, Mouse.
    ----- some may be in denial- but you know the correct answer.There are not Walt's who 'own' the dream any more- there are a lot more Roy's trying to keep profitabilty going and allow for the magic that does exist to continue to survive.

    People spending more than they should on things for decades helped get us to where we are today in the US and somewhat worldwide -- people using home equity as an ATM - people buying way more house than they could afford...where did that get us ?

    One needs income to match dreams- DVC is but one way Disney is doing that... you want them to return more of that bottom line profitability to the theme parks- then say that without all the caveats to what 'they' want. A corporate entity isnot a person...
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    vbadd, besides the money issue which I'll ignore because neither of us are going to budge on that one, the advent of DVC and the building of the multiple DVC resorts shows an obvious shift of focus for the company
    -----

    what year did DVC start ? 1992

    what year did AK open ? 1998 - so did they abandon theme parks after starting DVC ? What year did DCA open ? 2001 Hong Kong ?
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    Tokyo Sea ? 2001


    so let's see before DVC started"
    DL 1955
    MK 1971
    EPCOT 1980
    Tokyo 1983
    DHS 1989
    Paris 1992

    6 parks in 37 years


    After DVC started (1992)

    AK 1998
    Tokyo Sea 2001
    DCA 2001
    Hong Kong 2005

    4 parks in 7 years

    Yep - DVC has caused them to abandon the theme park business alright
     
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    Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

    *rolls eyes*

    I was talking about Florida. Said so in my post. Don't stick words in my mouth.

    <<Do I wish they focused more on the parks yes - so focus your energies on those who are holding back there- to blame the DVC units who are bringing cash into the corporate fold makes zero sense.>>

    Same people. Parks and resorts. Jay Rasulo just loved the DVC sooooo much.

    <<You may want to ignore the cash flow piece but reality says theme parks are not exactly high profit ventures. Your faves up the road aren't exactly rolling in cash - which is why ownership has been/ will be a continuing issue- >>

    Right. Which is the reason Potter is well on the way to paying itself off and they're on their way to an expansion.

    <<the question is are theme parks sustainable from a profit standopoint going forward. The landscape is littered with chapter 11 filings and closed parks. AS the Hard Rock bunch how easy it is to make money with a theme park.>>

    Comparing a Disney, Universal, or Busch theme park to the likes your talking about isn't really comparing apples to apples, though.
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    so you're telling me Uni parks are self sustainable and would have solid Moody debt ratings- no issues right ? Why are they having trouble finding a permanent owner that wants them ?
    the WWoHP is a one time freak occurance due to the popularity of the subject matter itself...unlikely to be duplicated by anyone, anywhere at this point in time./ it's not like they just added rides and attractions...kudo's to them for the addition but the greatest Fantasyland makeover ever is not going to generate Harry Potter type attendance now is it ? Should they do it anyway so that Disney fanboi's can gush over the money spent?

    if you can't understand the difference in ANY corporation between a real estate division and an entertainment/marketing division, I can't help you.

    Yep it's all the same thing- there's a magical mouse with one huge wallet and he gives out allowances to people like Jay to spend wherever they want. Oh yeah, and the wallet magically refills itself therefore profitable ventures are not needed. It's what you are basically saying, no one has to put words in your mouth, nor are they trying.

    NBC Universal has not stopped their other lines of business, nor has Blackstone to focus only on theme parks.
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    Does the 'theme park community not include global parks ? you may want to read your post again -- being a time share leader in Florida ....

    "... .rather than attempting to be the leader and innovator in the theme park community."


    So I guess they opened the other parks for free.. there was no venture capital involved ? There is not an never ending flow of money with which to expand...but I would think that the 4 parks I name AFTER DVC starting ( which does include one in Florida and one in California ) represent major investments

    $1.4 B initially for DCA and now another $1.1B - and another $1B for AK. That's abandoning the theme park business ?

    Uni spends $250M in 1999 for IOA and another $250M or so on WWoHP and they are the leaders ?

    really?
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    and that's taking nothing away from the quality I understand WWoHP is..I am glad the bar is being raised for them as well as everyone, but handing over the mantle of who is dedicated to the theme park business and who isn't doesn't come close to adding up...
     
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    Originally Posted By HokieSkipper

    <<so you're telling me Uni parks are self sustainable and would have solid Moody debt ratings- no issues right ? Why are they having trouble finding a permanent owner that wants them ?
    the WWoHP is a one time freak occurance due to the popularity of the subject matter itself...unlikely to be duplicated by anyone, anywhere at this point in time./ it's not like they just added rides and attractions...kudo's to them for the addition but the greatest Fantasyland makeover ever is not going to generate Harry Potter type attendance now is it ? Should they do it anyway so that Disney fanboi's can gush over the money spent? >>

    Probably not self sustainable. but you said theme parks are not a profitable venture.

    And yea, they should do the best Fantasyland possible. Because doing the best you possibly can GENERATES REVENUE. If it didn't the company never would have made it anywhere. Doing the best they possibly can in the theme parks is what made people want to have a time share near the parks. AND THAT IS WHAT THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN IN FLORIDA.

    <<if you can't understand the difference in ANY corporation between a real estate division and an entertainment/marketing division, I can't help you.>>

    And I don't think you understand that Vacation Club is under the Parks and Resorts division, which is the same as the theme parks(no kidding).

    <<NBC Universal has not stopped their other lines of business, nor has Blackstone to focus only on theme parks.>>

    What? You're just babbling now. Where did I say they should stop their other lines of business? Haha
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    And I don't think you understand that Vacation Club is under the Parks and Resorts division, which is the same as the theme parks(no kidding).
    ---------------------

    Disney Vacation Development, Inc., and Disney Vacation Club Management Corp. are subsidiaries of The Walt Disney Company and are affiliated with Walt Disney World Co. They have their own statements of financial positon and are a separate entity under the Walt Disney Parks and Resorts, LLC banner
     
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    Originally Posted By vbdad55

    <<NBC Universal has not stopped their other lines of business, nor has Blackstone to focus only on theme parks.>>

    What? You're just babbling now. Where did I say they should stop their other lines of business? Haha
    ---- no one is babbling- you want to create separate rules to govern what you want Disney to do vs. others. By your own inclusion ( or exclusion of Hard Rock park) Uni and Disney play in the same game. Blackstone also has real estate ventures- when they invest there are they too abandoning the theme park community - whatever that is ?
     
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    Originally Posted By CaptainMichael

    Without the parks there is no DVC.

    Without DVC, there are still parks.

    You can talk until you are in blue in the face about separate business units blah blah blah. But at the end of the day, DVC in Florida exists to serve the parks and entertainment at the Walt Disney World Resort. Without the parks, no one would buying overpriced timeshares in the middle of Florida. Disney is mooching off their own PAST reputation to sell as many timeshares as they can with investing the very least back into the parks. Guests are being exploited with a dose of pixie dust in the shape of a villa.
     
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    Originally Posted By FerretAfros

    "Without the parks, no one would buying overpriced timeshares in the middle of Florida."

    Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, how does that explain the Vero Beach and Hilton Head properties (and upcoming one in Hawaii)?
     
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    Originally Posted By leobloom

    "Without the parks, no one would buying overpriced timeshares in the middle of Florida."

    >> Just to play devil's advocate for a moment, how does that explain the Vero Beach and Hilton Head properties (and upcoming one in Hawaii)? <<

    I would assume beach front locations are attractive selling points on their own, whereas Central Florida scrub and swamp isn't. If the WDW DVC had oceanfront property, the parks probably wouldn't be as important. But they don't, so they are.
     
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