Originally Posted By vbdad55 Yes, let's. Let's actually do something new in the entertainment business, like we used to do. --- what about that $1.1B being spoent in DCA ? Is that Monopoly money ? Corporations are not riverboat gamblers..to expect such is going to lead to a lot of disappointment...
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<you mean as well as Mission:SPACE ?>> Considering Mission: Space wasn't well thought out, I'd say Expedition Everest is a much better example ---- okay I'll go with that - show the the statistics that show it paid for itself - and what atttendance increase was due solely to it. I can tell you I didn't change any vacation plans to add time for it-- no one i know went to WDW solely to see EE... unless you have a phenomenon like Potter- the ROI may be helped strategically somewhat- but tactically not at all.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper I don't have the numbers, but I know Lee hisownself does. And I know EE boosted DAK's attendance a heck of a lot, and merch sales are very, very good for it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 The timeshares are clearly something there's a market for, so that's cool. But there wouldn't be a market for them at all without the parks. And it's been awhile since there has been something big and newsworthy added to the parks side of the equation. ---- aside from EE and MS there hasn't and no one claimed there is-- however it is not because paid for timeshares are being built that there have been no other rides/attractions. Let's not forget the parks are also an entity and $1.1B for DCA- another $1B for Hong Kong -- this is not spending ? I don't get it -- UNI spends $250M on Potter while Disney is spending $1,2 B on DCA and just spent similar on Hong Kong and yet they're being accused of cheaping out ? thank you 2ooney for acknowledgin that there is a market of the DVC units- or else they'd stop builidng them also. And someday that day will come
Originally Posted By vbdad55 The one key issue I have is the diminishing quality of the Disney products (though Saratoga Springs seemed to step up quality). --- been inside Bay Lake - very nice but not for me as I don't like the high rise concept for DVC- personal taste, but the quality is very good. The room renovations at OKW- high quality. No one hits a home run every time..but for the most part I think DVC units are very nice.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I imagine Spirit is not surprised we are focusing on the DVC rumor and not the shock of everything else he experienced most recently --- somewhere Spirit is laughing his behind off because he riled up fanbois who are content to blame DVC for the lack of new attractions when even Spirit knows that is not the remotely the issue. The issue lies with management @ Disney and their relying on the past to carry them and now with the economy what it is..they have an excuse not to 'go wild'. And to say they are not spending money on parks period is also dead wrong..but WDW does get the short end of new attractions
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I don't have the numbers, but I know Lee hisownself does. And I know EE boosted DAK's attendance a heck of a lot, and merch sales are very, very good for it --- anywhere near enough to offset the cost ? I will trust Lee's numbers if he has them...I am just very skeptical... I think it is an excellent addition, but a reason for a family to travel there when they were not going to? I don't see it.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 The Spirit was off having a less than magical visit to what truly is simply The Timeshare Kingdom of the World now ... but he didn't expect this to generate quite the number of posts it has (I didn't even have time to pose the question of what exactly has changed between Erin Wallace and Jim Macphee's responsibilities and whether or not this may be a good thing for WDW or ... a bad thing for Disney Parks: Where Dreams Come True and Magic Lives During The Two Years of Two Million Dreams Where You Can Have Your Magical Gathering While Celebrating Today!) ... of course, I didn't post that because I am trying to distill the fact from fiction from rumor. But as to DVC ... it IS happening and IS happening at the site formerly known as River Country. I'll trust my sources (not including the fact Leemac basically said as much here a month ago ... and not counting the fact I spoke to numerous CMs at FW about future infrastructure changes and plans that would only make sense if something very large was being dropped down on said site. I've already said before that there are plans to add DVC to GF and Poly and at least one moderate (although that talk has quieted down). And while I always thought GF was next, people need to remember that Buffalo Junction was planned for this area in the 1990s. To turn a hotel project into a timeshare one doesn't require a whole lot of thought. I am not (sadly) surprised that folks grabbed onto the DVC point and left aside the fact I saw the aftermath of a person passing away at the MK ... or that the park's attractions (with two Liberty Square and one T-Land exceptions) are all in godawful show condition ... or worst of all, that some kid's magical WDW memory is going to be Daddy beating the bleep out of him before being arrested. I think a thread about how Disney has lowered pin prices might have been better ;-) My issue isn't with DVC. I've said I like most of the resorts (I do feel the Beach Club was RUINED by DVC and will go to grave feeling that way ... in another 80-90 years!) I love the WLV ... and BW ... and Hilton Head and Vero. But, yes, at some point enough is enough. And Disney hasn't gotten that. WDW isn't an entertainment complex anymore. It's a timeshare and hotel business (and I wish I could give an exact verbatim quote from someone most folks would know here about it ... but I can't. ... But this isn't simply fanboi angst). At some point, you need to reinvest in the parks. That IS why people have always gone ... although Disney is actively working so that the parks are a background deal ... so that people/fanbois grow to simply love 'the brand' ... that allows them to Walmart left and right and get a pass because the connection isn't so much with parks or attractions or even characters ... but the brand ... the absurd overuse of 'the Walt font' and words like wishes, dreams and magic and this absurd idea that WDW isn't the real world. YES, it is. And has been since the 1990s. Oh, and Spirit would love if this somehow doesn't happen (Disney did announce numerous DVCs to the public/media and even started building access roads to one in FLA -- where the Four Seasons and Golden Oak are going now -- only to change its mind). But I don't see that happening in this case.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub You are correct. The Disney Brand became aggressive a long time ago to compete with other vacation destinations. It took on the Cruise Industry and major European tourist destinations and learned to package itself with full vacation planning. Why are we surprised they have entered Hawaii and Alaska. I am surprised they have not announced a DVC in Las Vegas to be quite honest.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Sorry to hear about the bad experiences Spirit. I've also seen parents at WDW treating children terribly, although never quite as bad as what you reported. Not sure if I feel really badly about the woman passing on WDW property. It would depend on her age. Personally, I would be fine with things if I passed while on WDW property if I were at least 70. As for the OTHER hot topic... DVC. I think Disney builds park visitors through DVC. I'm sure they have data showing that the average DVC owner visits WDW more frequently than non-DVC owners and spends more while there. If my personal experience over the past couple of years is any indication, it builds a LOT of park attendance. May 2009. My daughter was married in Orlando. We provided the newlyweds with honeymoon accommodations for a week and accommodations for the groom's parents and our son (and ourselves) using our DVC points. Without DVC I could not have afforded to do that. December 2009. Decided at the last minute to attend the LP meet at Disneyland with Ann. We stayed at the Paradise Pier hotel (park view) for three nights using DVC points. Again, without DVC that trip would have never been made. January 2010. I visited WDW for 10 days and paid for my daughter and son-in-law’s accommodations for 7 days using DVC points. I would have probably vacationed myself without DVC, but there is no way I could afford to pay for a week for the kids without it. September 2010. Ann and I are married. We spend 4 days at WDW and go on a Disney Cruise using DVC points. I would have probably done WDW anyway, but there is NO WAY I would have gone on the cruise without DVC. I was always convinced cruises would be boring. I was wrong. Without DVC I would have never found that out. January 2011. Ann and I are going to WDW for a week, of course using DVC points. There is no way I could afford this vacation at all while on a retirement budget if not for DVC. Fortunately my points were paid for long ago but I still get to use them now. September 2011. Ann and I are going on an Anniversary Disney Cruise and are even paying for her grown son to accompany us. Again, all on DVC points. Again, I could have never done this without DVC. So when people say that DVC does nothing for park attendance I STRONGLY disagree. Just for my family having DVC means we have anywhere from 10-30 person days in the parks (or cruises) per year that would not happen without DVC. Sorry fanbois, but there isn’t ANY ATTRACTION Disney could build that would increase my attendance as much as DVC has.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 Trippy, I see/understand and mostly agree with what you are saying ... as it pertains to you ... although I'd say many DVCers likely have similar scenarios. (I wouldn't have 'wasted' my points on Paradise Pier, but that's a whole other topic). I do believe DVC absolutely adds tremendously to park visits ... but it's a catch-22 because Disney then has a captive audience and while VBDAD spoke earlier about how vocal DVCers can be and how that has resulted in things like new slide at OKW and additional feature pool at SS, higher-end counter tops at OKW etc ... I see a vast majority of folks who buy into what I call the 'DVC Lifestyle' and are not so likely to bitch about real quality issues in the parks (or even resorts) unless it directly affects them ... that's very different from the vocal APers in Anaheim who constantly keep management on its toes. Oh, and please tell me your next cruise is gonna be at least a seven-nighter ... you won't be sorry!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Sorry fanbois, but there isn’t ANY ATTRACTION Disney could build that would increase my attendance as much as DVC has.<< But the reason you bought DVC in the first place is because of... the parks and their attractions. The reason any of us became Disney park fans is because of the rides, shows, attractions. It's the core value of the whole thing, and the primary reason people choose DVC over other timeshare brands. I'm just saying that both should co-exist happily. But I am sensing that there is something of "eh, the parks are fine as is" mindset creeping into these discussions from DVC owners. I hope I'm wrong about that.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The parks are obviously the reason I bought into DVC. And to date, the changes in the parks (except for the MK) have kept me satisfied. Recent additions to DHS (Midway Mania), AK (Expedition Everest) and Epcot (Soarin' and Captain EO) have been enough to make me feel that the parks are moving forward. I also know that spending money on new attractions is not always the answer. Disney spent a HUGE amount on Mission Space, and I doubt it has added anything to Epcot's annual attendance. I personally love it and think it is one of Epcot's best attractions. But I know my view is not widely shared. Were the Imagineers involved with Mission Space total idiots? I doubt it. They were just setting the bar high... going for something totally unique that no other theme park had. Did they succeed in that? Hell yes! There is no other attraction that compares to Mission Space on the planet. But is it popular? Well, no. That is the problem when you try to be out front and ahead of everyone else. Sometimes you win. Often you fail. But Disney wins enough to keep me interested. For frequent visitors like me (I lost count at 25+) sometimes the best attraction are a familiar favorite. My favorite WDW attraction for the past 10 years has stayed the same. Go over to Epcot about 8 PM. Stake out a spot near the wine concession at France, have a couple of glasses of wine and ENJOY Illuminations. I don't think I will ever get tired of that. Does the MK kind of suck? Sure it does. But what the heck? There are three other parks there.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>okay I'll go with that - show the the statistics that show it paid for itself - and what atttendance increase was due solely to it. I can tell you I didn't change any vacation plans to add time for it-- no one i know went to WDW solely to see EE...<< EE wasn't the sole factor, but it was the catalyst for us going. I wanted to see this new State of the Art AA, and it was the final thing that had me plopping down $10,000 to go. When we got there, the AA cave was pitch black (not even disco mode), a few effects including the angler fish in the new Nemo attraction also were broken, Country Bear Jamboree and Haunted Mansion were in a terrible state, we got stuck in Uncle Wilbur's scene of CoP for three rotations - needless to say, WDW is not very high on the agenda, and if I were a DVC owner I would have been royally POed.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>--- been inside Bay Lake <<< Not personally, but from the pictures I have seen it looks cheap, tacky and small, not much better than a 3 Star Urban hotel IMHO. Those I know that have stayed there seem to like it, but many I know that have stayed there seem to have a limited point of referrence choosing to only ever stay with the mouse.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I also know that spending money on new attractions is not always the answer. Disney spent a HUGE amount on Mission Space, and I doubt it has added anything to Epcot's annual attendance. I personally love it and think it is one of Epcot's best attractions. But I know my view is not widely shared. Were the Imagineers involved with Mission Space total idiots? I doubt it. They were just setting the bar high... going for something totally unique that no other theme park had. Did they succeed in that? Hell yes! There is no other attraction that compares to Mission Space on the planet. But is it popular? Well, no. << Imagineers who worked on M:S might not have been idiots, but they unwisely created a ride that a large percentage of visitors to Epcot have no desire to experience because of its intensity. And without the spinning, the ride loses a lot of its flair. (And of course there's the pitiful E:E, where the idiot Imagineers designed a 'ground-breaking' animatronic, the !@#$ing star of the show, that hasn't been fully operational in several years.) Whatever happened to designing all-out E-tickets that--it's a cliche--'everyone can enjoy.' If they did, who knows how attendance would be affected?
Originally Posted By leobloom >> we got stuck in Uncle Wilbur's scene of CoP for three rotations << I can't even enjoy Carousel of Progress anymore, because I'm always on pins and needles waiting to see if some moron is going to get up and walk out in the middle of the show, therefore forcing the scene to play over again. I think there was one time that we saw the second scene (the one with the blown fuse) three times in one show.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 At some point, you need to reinvest in the parks. That IS why people have always gone ... --- no argument- the argument is that DVC is NOT the reason they are not reinvesting in the parks..DVC pays for itself up front.. the reason they are not reinvesting is because Management chooses not to.. stopping DVC building will not immediately shift focus to reinvigorating the Florida Parks..the cause -effect is not a direct 1:1 correlation, sorry hard to complain about DL/DCA when $1.1B is being spent there
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Sorry fanbois, but there isn’t ANY ATTRACTION Disney could build that would increase my attendance as much as DVC has. thank you Trippy
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub Unfortunately the increase in DVC Resorts does affect the quality at the parks. It creates a huge burden and advanced detioration of everything. Are these types of issues discussed at the yearly DVC Meetings?
