Originally Posted By vbdad55 I'm just saying that both should co-exist happily. But I am sensing that there is something of "eh, the parks are fine as is" mindset creeping into these discussions from DVC owners. I hope I'm wrong about that ---------------------- not from me-- I absolutely want more from the parks in Florida..however I am willing to temper it a 'litttle' timing wise due to the economy. That doesn't excuse the huge gap in time between Splash and EE of true e-tickets..I agree. My sole point here is that it is not build DVC OR build park enhancements - they are mutually exclusive from an investment standpoint because one pays for itself up front.That point seems to be incomprehensible to some as they view it as a 1:1 correlation of one OR the other. I am VERY vocal about what the dining plan has done to great restaurants and the process of eating at them...very vocal about crap that was done like the Poo playground in Fantasyland, reduced hours etc. so I am not a pixie dusted DVC er... but I also know enough about business to know that comments being made are conjecture and hyperbole, but not reality.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Not personally, but from the pictures I have seen it looks cheap, tacky and small, not much better than a 3 Star Urban hotel IMHO. Those I know that have stayed there seem to like it, but many I know that have stayed there seem to have a limited point of referrence choosing to only ever stay with the mouse ---size is not overwhelming, but capacity and quality of materials is very high..you might want to hold off until you see it in person before judging - just saying..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Unfortunately the increase in DVC Resorts does affect the quality at the parks. It creates a huge burden and advanced detioration of everything --- please give me examples of how DVC is affecting quality at the parks- just saying that doesn't make it true. What part of DVC does that ? Maintenenace is paid for thru yearly dues by members..how the heck else are they affected the parks..this is making my head hurt - really are they the cause of global warming also ?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Hence why I said I have not seen it in person (hence the lack of final judgement). But some of it is taste too. I don't like a lot of popular US designs right now (MVCI or Disney). That is a personal taste thing that I recognise.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 all good- but Marriott was not mentioned- when you use 'cheap and tack' in the context of this thread it seemed like piling on..when you explain it as you did now- I have zero issue with it. For instance I do not like Boardwalk - just not my taste, not because it is bad, I prefer OKW.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo To be fair, I think you also got the wrong end of the stick from my comments earlier. I wasn't ragging on DVC (like I say, we considered it, and indeed still would if Aulani turns out nice and they built in Europe). The issue I considered is how WDW has been in decline for 10 years and the personal business case for DVC made most sense if wanting to stay in WDW (this was before GCH). I would not travel 3000 miles for a beach in Hilton HEad and Vero, when I can go to one here in Europe much quicker and cheaper. Living in Illinois, you needs are different than ours. If DIsney were maintaining and improving their standards across the board, we would have bought in a heart beat. If we had the means when DVC first started, we would have. But by the time we were ready to buy (2005), the decline had continued and the products on offer in Europe, MVCI had the best on the table. Also, the fact our resort is right in the middle of the DLP golf course, closer to the parks than Epcot is to the MK, was a significant pull. If it had been DVC, we would have likely bought it. Never did I start to regret the purchase because of theme park declines until recently. The good news is there are so many other sites we have yet to see or would like to that could fill a lifetime, with a huge stock of alternative resorts around the globe on offer. It is the overall management of modern Disney my beef lays. In fact, I think DVCers are the best hope of getting quality in WDW.
Originally Posted By Mickeymouseclub If you have an estate sale in your home and allow carloads of people to walk thru your house for 3days; will that not cause detioration more rapidly of carpeting (for example)? I think DVC does have an affect that needs to be considered.It is not separate.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 It is the overall management of modern Disney my beef lays. In fact, I think DVCers are the best hope of getting quality in WDW. --- in Florida I agree- they have to become the role that California AP's play
Originally Posted By vbdad55 The management IS to blame- not for building cash flow creating DVC units, but for NOT maintaining the parks quality- mutually exclusive issues
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer Snide remarks and jabs aside, I don't see you offering consequential evidence for your argument either. So, I'm done with arguing in circles for now. If I want that, I can go other websites.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 the fact that they are separate entities under one division should tell you all you need to know...what role in a corporation do you perform ? If they are separate subsidiaries they have separate budgets - separate P&L etc. Unless someone can present me with the opportunity to open up their internal books I can't supply you with a balance sheet, but the structure is the same regardless of whether it is Disney or Microsoft..or Ford but if you want to keep on demonizing the DVC division for somehow spending another entities funds ( might be a little accounting GAAP problem there)- or pretending you somehow know that certain people in management have some kind of hotel fetish they are sating, go right ahead. I'm done banging my head on the wall also - DVC has caused them to : go away from all beef hotdogs, allow burnt out light buls, get rid of live entertainment, has scrapped at least 10 E ticket plans and is the cause of all that is wrong with the Florida parks. Okay.. now we can sleep. When they stop building them one day, ( and they will)- you can set up a tent and await the massive roll out of improvements that's sure to follow immediately afterwards.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 If you have an estate sale in your home and allow carloads of people to walk thru your house for 3days; will that not cause detioration more rapidly of carpeting (for example)? I think DVC does have an affect that needs to be considered.It is not separate --- MMC - DVC memebrs pay a yearly maintenance fee to the wholly owned subsidiary known as DVC for the sole purpose of replacing carpets, repainting, pool repairs etc. What effect does this have on anything outside of DVC units. please supply an actual reason that holds up.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 EE_ when DL fell into disrepair - and really IMHO much worse than WDW before being spruced up for the 50th- was it DVC building that caused that also ? No, it was the same indifference and inattention by management that you have today in Florida. now I am done..
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<If you have an estate sale in your home and allow carloads of people to walk thru your house for 3days; will that not cause detioration more rapidly of carpeting (for example)? I think DVC does have an affect that needs to be considered.It is not separate...>> So somehow DVC'ers cause wear and tear on the parks and infrastructure that people staying in regular WDW resorts or down the road at the local Super 8 do not cause? Please explain that one to me. I'm all ears.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The main effect DVC would have on the parks is if owners seem content with the parks not adding new attractions. If Disney can sell tons of APs and DVC units and merchandise without spending money on new attractions, of course they will do just that. But I prefer to believe that people buy the units based on the promise that the parks will try to live up to Walt's ideal of always being these changing, innovative places to visit. That means adding new attractions every so often, small ones and major ones, too. That as long as there is imagination left in the world... well, you know the rest.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 ^^^^ all the owners I know have that exact feeling-- and are pretty demanding about what they want from DVC..I think it is the best chance for Florida to have vocality like So Cal AP's have. I still think DL is unique because of so many locals however.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Sorry fanbois, but there isn’t ANY ATTRACTION Disney could build that would increase my attendance as much as DVC has. thank you Trippy << Then we really do have a problem. If crowds are increasing because of DVC while Park capacity is remaining the same or as some people have suggested have decreased. Now there is a legitimate reason to complain about DVC. I won't even get into the class warfare aspect of it here.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> are they the cause of global warming also ? << Possibly, also check to see how many of earths animal species have become extinct since DVC was implemented.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Then we really do have a problem. If crowds are increasing because of DVC while Park capacity is remaining the same or as some people have suggested have decreased. Now there is a legitimate reason to complain about DVC.>> Not really. 1) With the addition of Animal Kingdom park capacity increased considerably more than needed to accommodate DVC. 2) Overall attendance has not significantly increased over the past twenty years. In fact current WDW and Epcot attendance are BELOW what they were in 1991 when the first DVC resort opened. Source: <a href="http://www.scottware.com.au/theme/feature/atend_disparks.htm" target="_blank">http://www.scottware.com.au/th...arks.htm</a> DVC has softened the blow Disney would have otherwise felt from the 9/11 and recession related cutbacks in travel. Funny how people will grasp at straws to find something to blame DVC for.
