Originally Posted By MPierce That's very true it's up to each individual to determine what is Magical for them. I was merely offering another option for that experience.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<You can't hold that against them. Everyone is entitled to a chance to express themselves here at LP even when we disagree with that opinion.>> I never said anyone wasn't allowed to express his/her opinion. I'm just stating my opinion that constant haranguing can be similar to beating a dead horse. When you bring the same points up over and over and over again, it becomes white noise.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 I know what you're saying MPierce, and I agree with you. It's the extent of people's negativity, and their dislike of how Disney is. If I was that unhappy with a store I shopped, I'd complain once, then I'd find another store. WDW is not the only park around. I live an hour from a 6 Flags. Probably the same from Canabie Lake Park. I choose Disney because it's an escape to my childhood. If guests treated my house the way some treat the parks, they'd never be invited back. Management may be guilty of shoddy workmanship and downed rides, but they aren't the ones who throw wrappers and drinks everywhere on the ground. I just feel that the people who want to make me feel bad for enjoying my trip to WDW every 2-3 years, should just go do something that they do enjoy. Unless making others feel bad is what they enjoy.
Originally Posted By MPierce ^^^Honestly nothing that's ever written here becomes white noise to me. I am very interested in each person's opinion. it's almost like taking a poll. Don't you honestly believe WDW could benefit from a lot of the opinions that are offered here?
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey I definitely believe that WDW could benefit from some of the opinions here. However, I find that some of those opinions are recycled over and over again; as a result, there are certain posts that I don't pay any mind to because, 9 times out of 10, it's something I've read earlier. I think the best way for WDW to benefit from these opinions is for these opinions to be written down and actually sent to WDW management. You can say what you want about whether those letters/emails are actually read, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get more attention than postings on a message board (even if Disney has moles on all of these message boards).
Originally Posted By nats 31 The reason there is so much negatity is because most of us remember when WDW was clean and everything always looked like it did when it opened. As a matter of fact, the Birnbaum book used to tell how Disney kept the parks looking like new. They were continually painting and replacing torn curtains. Now they don't care if the monorail seats have holes in them. For the price we pay we are entitled to see everything in tip top shape.
Originally Posted By leobloom Nikki, I thought you said you were leaving. What made you change your mind and come back?
Originally Posted By leobloom >For the price we pay we are entitled to see everything in tip top shape.> If consumers decide to pay thousands of dollars to vacation at WDW knowing that the parks and resorts aren't in tip top shape, then you're entitled to mediocre WalMart quality that you get. If you really think the parks are headed in the wrong direction (as I do), then do as I do: don't visit unless you get free tickets. There are hundreds of other places to enjoy a vacation if Disney disappoints you.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I know what you're saying MPierce, and I agree with you. It's the extent of people's negativity, and their dislike of how Disney is. If I was that unhappy with a store I shopped, I'd complain once, then I'd find another store. WDW is not the only park around. I live an hour from a 6 Flags. Probably the same from Canabie Lake Park. I choose Disney because it's an escape to my childhood. If guests treated my house the way some treat the parks, they'd never be invited back. Management may be guilty of shoddy workmanship and downed rides, but they aren't the ones who throw wrappers and drinks everywhere on the ground. I just feel that the people who want to make me feel bad for enjoying my trip to WDW every 2-3 years, should just go do something that they do enjoy. Unless making others feel bad is what they enjoy. Yes there are a lot of parks to choose from, and some people have chosen the other ones. Disneyland type parks are a throwback to a lot of folks youth, and they choose to fight in an attempt to maintain that quality that drew them to Disney to begin with. These forums are how they fight back. Yes people can be pigs, but I remember a time when a piece of popcorn had a short survival time on the ground before someone was there to sweep it up. It should still be like that. That was part of Walts vision. Disneyland didn't automaticly become like that, it wasn't a fluke either. Walt demanded that his guest got the best he could offer. I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one want to see that Magical feeling maintained. You can't send suggestions to WDW they won't even touch those. My only recourse seems to be posting here, hoping that what I type does not fall on deaf ears at WDW. I really don't think anybody here wants you to feel guilty about going to WDW, and enjoying yourself. I hope everybody goes, and has a wonderful time, you've surly paid to enjoy yourself. Look at some of Spirits post about his trips. He freely admits that for the most part he enjoyed himself. However it's that underlying feeling that he's getting from the parks long term that bother him. You know what got me thinking about some of the issues. Since I can see you shaking your head no, as you read this, I'll tell you. My wife, and myself were headed back to WL early from an enjoyable evening at Epcot. It was about 8pm, not park closing. The bus rapidly filled up. a woman got on the bus carrying an infant. I looked around, noticed people were already standing in the back so I offered her my seat. That's just the way I was raised. The bus pulled away, and I noticed there were several women, and children standing, when there were men still seated. I had never really paid attention to this before. I'm sure it had happened, but I just wasn't aware of it. I thought that's just not right having women, and small children standing on a moving bus. My first instinct was to blame the men not yielding their seats. then I suddenly thought why should they. The real question became why would Disney treat people they call guest like cattle. I really could find no other reason than you save "money" by running fewer modes of transportation which leads to overcrowding. A little bit of Magic left me that day, and I'm having a hard time getting it back. I could no longer justify women, and children or men being subjected to this kind of treatment from Disney for any reason. That's what first got me thinking about what I expect from Disney when I spend 5 or 6 thousand dollars there for a trip. I still love WDW, I just expect my monies worth out of them now. It's sometimes easier for us to overlook some of these short comings because we have limited visits.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I think the best way for WDW to benefit from these opinions is for these opinions to be written down and actually sent to WDW management. You can say what you want about whether those letters/emails are actually read, but I wouldn't be surprised if they get more attention than postings on a message board (even if Disney has moles on all of these message boards). << I can guarantte you that suggestions do not get read. I know for a fact because I've heard from WDW legal before. Here's the address, try it for yourself WDW.Responses@disney.com
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<You can't send suggestions to WDW they won't even touch those. My only recourse seems to be posting here, hoping that what I type does not fall on deaf ears at WDW.>> You can write a letter of complaint. I wrote a letter to complain about the lousy housekeeping at Riverside and received a personal phone call and $50 Disney Dollars. They don't respond to all letters, but they do respond. As for leobloom's question, I came back because I'm not going to let some posters ruin my enjoyment of this board. I'll leave it at that.
Originally Posted By leobloom Good for you, Nikki. Mickey would hate you if you ever stopped defending him. It would make him so sad he would become the hermit of Toontown Fair, refusing to see anyone and going on a hunger strike, eventually dying of starvation, leaving the land to become a decent section of MK. Speaking of Toontown Fair, that's gotta be the crappiest section of any WDW theme park. I mean, like, total stinking brown dog crap.
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 MPierce, you are correct, but does shelling out lots of $$$ entitle people to litter, not flush toilets, not have the manners their mothers should have taught them? You did the right thing on the bus. Disney is first a business, and has to be run as a money making machine. Unfortunately it has the wrong people running it. I had a friend who worked for a company that lost money for several quarters in a row, yet the execs all got bonuses! How can anyone justify that? I'm sure many of the higher-ups at Disney are only in it for the money, so yes they raise prices and lower what they give the public. It's wrong, but it's typical business.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> Four Parks=One Stale World. << <<Very profound! Now where have I heard that before. >> Likely on my new set of Spirited merchandise ... coming soon to every Disney site I can peddle it on. If that doesn't work then I may have to resort to taking pics of DVC construction!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<That could very well be true bobbelee, but remember WDW is not a person. It's a vision of a man. Many here feel that vision has been slipping of late. I don't think anyone here said anything they didn't truly believe, and I believe everyone here wants WDW to improve it's offerings. I know you are tired of all the negative responses, but that's becoming more prevelant on all the WDW discussion boards. The fact is for 2009 the basic answer for what's new is less of everything with shortened Park hours for more money. That's not zinging anybody that's just a truthful response. The worse thing that can happen is complacency sets in, and the Parks stagnate while declining in the vision that Walt once had for it. I think most people who love WDW come to these boards, and a lot of them are unhappy with the road WDW is presently headed down. Sure WDW is still a pretty wonderful place to go to, but how much longer will that last with declining standards. I still would rather be walking around the WS at Epcot than just about any other place I can think of. However, I am still concerned with the directions things seem to be going at Disney, and many people here have chosen alternatives to WDW already.>> VERY well said, bud. I'd like to think people are going to wake up to constantly slipping quality and cutbacks while paying more for their dose of WDW magic. But maybe I'm wrong ... some people so want to see the magic they'll overlook anything. I somehow don't believe that's what Walt or any of the amazing people who brought WDW to reality would have wanted to happen.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I know what you're saying MPierce, and I agree with you. It's the extent of people's negativity, and their dislike of how Disney is.>> Since I'm going to assume that's directed at me, I'm going to respond. I don't dislike WDW. I love it. Still. It can be magical. Just not in the BS marketing way that Rasulo and Co want. Magical for me may be watching deer feed as I walk between FW and the WL ... it may be walking the Pangani Trail at DAK ... or sitting by a fire pit at DAK Lodge ... or having a sundae at DD ... or watching Illuminations ... or having dinner at the California Grill or sitting on a bench peoplewatching. But I can't stand how it is constantly being WalMarted. I can't stand how poor its exec 'leadership' team really is. I can't tolerate the way Disney's execs and managers look at how to cut quality while increasing price and, worst of all, I can't stand listening to supposed fans defend it. <<If I was that unhappy with a store I shopped, I'd complain once, then I'd find another store. WDW is not the only park around.>> No. It isn't. It's not even the only Disney resort, which I why I have APs at two others and recently visited a third and am planning on heading to the final one next year. It is, however, the resort I grew up ... my home resort ... the place that made me a Disney geek for life. And I have so many amazing memories from the place. I just don't agree with this if you don't like the way the place is being run, don't go mindset. <<I live an hour from a 6 Flags. Probably the same from Canabie Lake Park. I choose Disney because it's an escape to my childhood. If guests treated my house the way some treat the parks, they'd never be invited back. Management may be guilty of shoddy workmanship and downed rides, but they aren't the ones who throw wrappers and drinks everywhere on the ground.>> I don't quite get where you are going but my opinion on this has never changed. People are generally pigs in this country (and Europe as well) and they trash Disney parks daily. But it doesn't make ANY difference at all. It is Disney's job to make the place look pristine despite what guests do. <<I just feel that the people who want to make me feel bad for enjoying my trip to WDW every 2-3 years, should just go do something that they do enjoy. Unless making others feel bad is what they enjoy.>> Again, I'm going to assume this is directed at me because it sure seems that way. And I in no way want you to do anything but have a great time at WDW. That's what I usually do when I go. I'd like to think you're not going to have your trip to WDW ruined because I bitch about the way Phil Holmes runs the MK on a fan discussion board. C'mon now ... let's be real ...
