Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "It's not all that perplexing to me. The hotel business is a pretty low margin business." Is it? It shouldn't be when your occupancy rate is averaging 80+ percent year-round as Disney's is in Anaheim. Not only that, food and beverage sales at Disney's Anaheim hotels are likely to be significantly higher than comparable hotels because of the constant traffic flow. I can't believe that Disney isn't raking in the dough with its Anaheim properties.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA yep that is strange.. since they advertise the hotel's dining as another option for park quests
Originally Posted By Ohana i didnt reaize the Gardenwalk was considered a failure. the many times i've been by there are lines out the door for the restaurants
Originally Posted By jmuboy I'm not sure GW is labeled a failure. It’s having a hard time fully getting off the ground. After a million false starts the place finally gets built but is lacking the proposed anchor hotels, space is much slower to fill up, the recession isn't helping and none of the "gardens" have grown in. I think over time GW will slowly develop into a nice addition to the Anahiem resort area. Its just going to take longer than the developers planned I believe.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA I can see the GW a failure.. It’s like if you live in orange county then why drive all the way to the GW just to eat or shop when you can drive to the Irvine District or the Irvine Spectrum, or The Block at Orange. Those places are lot like the GW, and now the GW has something to compete against. But obviously it’s not drawing enough crowds.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA GW parking lot sucks monkey butt, it’s hard to get in and out of that place!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt The first mistake they made with GW was the concept itself. It's mostly just another mall with the same chain stores that can be found anywhere. Why would a tourist waste valuable Disney time walk half a mile to eat at Bubba Gumps or go bowling? The people who planned that place were incredibly short sighted. Perhaps if the developers had gone with a more unique So Cal feel with local eateries and shops I think it would have been more of a draw. There are some excellent examples of this kind of development with Pike Place Market in Seattle and the Ferry Building in San Francisco. Even San Francisco Center, a mall operated by Westfield, has a unique food court in that it features only local restaurants. The place is always packed.
Originally Posted By LOVE-DCA exactly.. the same stores that are at GW are the same stores at the other "malls" in orange county etc..
Originally Posted By gadzuux I think access is a bigger problem. It's not easy for people in the area to get there on foot. It's not even visible to most vistors in the area. Until they get direct pedestrian access from Harbor, their foot traffic will suffer.
Originally Posted By dshyates Hans, I don't think the concept is the problem. I think the problem is with the follow through. I think the GW would have been fine IF they had gone ahead and built the hotels. GW wasn't built as a draw for locals. But had to try and draw them in after they didn't build the hotels. Remember that they were going to have a rather large moderately priced family hotel. And most tourists would rather eat at a high-end chain restaurant than an unknown local name. I know that when I travel to a city that I know little about I usually eat at a chian restaurant that is something that I don't have locally like Roy's of Hawaii. I know that that's a rather pedestrian attitude, but I think that it holds true. That is why Orlando is chocked FULL of chains.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << GW wasn't built as a draw for locals. >> GW wasn't built as a draw for anyone. It was built during a time when there was easy financing for practically any real estate venture known to man, and there wasn't any need for financial viability to get the deals closed. There is already too much retail in this country and GW just added to a glut of stores that people aren't shopping at anymore. Adding hotels, condos, or any other components would not have substantially changed that simple fact.
Originally Posted By dshyates OK, you got me. GW wasn't designed for the economic circumstances we see today. If it was it would have a Super 8, and a Motel 6. With WalMart and Best Buy as anchors. Oh, and the Cheesecake Factory and Roy's would be Denny's and Cici's Pizza.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ^^ We had too many stores before the economy went kaput. Shopping malls have been a losing proposition for about a decade now.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "GW wasn't built as a draw for locals." I know, and as someone who lives out of the area there is absolutely nothing there that would be a draw for anyone who's been to a mall in the past 20 years. Yes, it improves the Resort District by a mile, but really there's nothing there that any American tourist can't find in their hometown. Like gadzuux said, access from DLR is bad, and on top of that, the concept is bland and cookie-cutter. "That is why Orlando is chocked FULL of chains." And that is probably the main reason why almost anyone you talk to hates Orlando.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "There is already too much retail in this country and GW just added to a glut of stores that people aren't shopping at anymore." That pretty much sums it up. Had they created an eating and shopping experience that was unique to Orange County I think this could have turned out differently. As soon as I saw the roster of stores I knew that GW was doomed.
Originally Posted By dshyates "And that is probably the main reason why almost anyone you talk to hates Orlando." Since I now live in Orlando, I actually talk to TONS of people that LOVE visiting here. I just think that people from SoCal and the Bay area are a titch spoiled and pretentious.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Pretentious? Why, because we want more than the junk they built at GW? Please.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Pretentious? Why, because we want more than the junk they built at GW? Please." First off, WHO are the folks that come to DLR and stay off-prop? Where do they come from? WHY do they stay in a non-DLR hotel? I am sure they are peole that you have little respect for and little understanding of. And I am SURE that they think the Cheesecake Factory is expensive and Roy's is HIGH-END.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt High end isn't the point. I was simply saying that the project's concept should have had something unique in order to be a home run success. High end or not, there is nothing unique about a Cheesecake Factory. You can go to one of those practically anywhere. If they want people to take the time to go over there (both locals and tourists) they should have created something worth the time and energy.
Originally Posted By dshyates Where I come from the best restaurant is either Ruby Tuesday's or Hooters. I suspect that it will be another 15 years before they get something like a Cheesecake Factory. And even those that live NEAR a metropolitan area that has a Cheesecake Factory, if they are staying at a moderate hotel off-prop, then my guess is still Cheesecake Factory is good eatin'.
