Originally Posted By Lady Starlight In MOHO, I went on IASW on Wednesday and still liked it. People made a HUGE fuss over the Nightmare Befor Christmas when it was comming to the HM, but now people love it, and that was a drastic change. Not a sublte one like IASW is.
Originally Posted By oc_dean You're forgetting a key thing here: Those are "Holiday/Christmas" lay-overs .. meant to stand out. They are TEMPORARY. 'it's a small world's' changes are meant to be permanent.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Of course to those people who only get to visit DL during the holiday season, they never get to experience the "permanent" HM or IaSW anymore.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<WorldDisney: On the other hand, I can see that adding characters creates an interest for people who simply never cared about the message, and sorry, but many simply dont!! They just like the cute characters, art design and there I say it, the song. For many of them, they just probably enjoy the images and the characters only adds to it.>> The whole trouble with that argument is that it flies in the face of the concept of pleasing your customers. Here you have an attraction that millions love and cherish, but Disney has decided that they want to try and convert those visitors “who simply never cared about the message” or the ride at all for that matter, at the expense of those who do. If people only care about images and characters, they can find them in other areas of the park. Disneyland has quite a few attractions that are actually based on the characters they are trying to “promote”. It’s nonsense that they “need” to incorporate Disney Characters (as was noted elsewhere, even the Small World figures are Disney Characters) in order to make anything <I>relevant</I>.
Originally Posted By danyoung >...but Disney has decided that they want to try and convert those visitors “who simply never cared about the message” or the ride at all for that matter, at the expense of those who do.< Your argument assumes that the millions of people who have loved the ride are going to dislike the current additions, which is very clearly proving to be not true.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 ^^ How do you know? How does anyone know what the reaction is? I haven't seen any reports of people standing outside the ride and polling people to get a reaction. All I have seen is the reaction of people posting on the Disney Forums, and that is a mixed reaction to say the least. Plus any poll that simply asks if people like the ride without also referencing why the changes were made and what Walt intended the ride to be is an incomplete poll... since if one didn't know about the UNICEF background and who Mary Blair was, then one can easily view IASW as just another theme park ride and only meant to be entertaining, and nothing more. - Anatole
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "How do you know? How does anyone know what the reaction is?" Good point. We don't know. Still, I don't think it is necessary to take conduct a poll in order to conclude that the majority of people visiting Disney parks are okay with the addition of characters to this ride. In fact, given the popularity and demand for this sort of thing, my guess is that most visitors want or expect to see Disney characters at every turn, even in IASW. It seems to me that it's mostly the die hard fans like us that get worked up about this kind of stuff.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<any poll that simply asks if people like the ride without also referencing why the changes were made and what Walt intended the ride to be is an incomplete poll... since if one didn't know about the UNICEF background and who Mary Blair was, then one can easily view IASW as just another theme park ride and only meant to be entertaining, and nothing more.>> Since you want to invoke Walt's name again, I'll say this: Walt was all about entertaining middle-American. It isn't necessary to know about UNICEF or Mary Blair to enjoy IaSW, just as it isn't necessary to know about Marc Davis to enjoy PotC. Really, beyond theme park geeks and Diznerds, how many people know or want to know this stuff? Are you going to tell all these "uneducated" people they are idiots and explain to them what the ride is really all about? Or are you going to let them enjoy it any way they please, as Walt would have had it? People will vote with their money. If DL fails to entertain people any longer, they'll stop going. But since everyone seems to agree that DL is almost never not busy, I guess people really do like characters, princesses, pirates, and fairies, at least for now. Perhaps if those same people get tired of it all, DL will change again.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "If DL fails to entertain people any longer, they'll stop going. But since everyone seems to agree that DL is almost never not busy, I guess people really do like characters, princesses, pirates, and fairies, at least for now." I do wonder how much cheap APs are responsible for Disneyland being so crowded. If the only AP option was $400 and ticket prices were around $50 for 1-day 1-park, would the park be as crowded? If you're paying $69 + ~$8 a month for an annual pass that lets you in on Fridays and Sundays, are you going to be more forgiving about what's going on at Disneyland?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Of course the AP crowd is in large part why DL is always crowded, but by the same token, the AP crowd is pretty darn tough and unforgiving. I have to words for you; Light "Tragic." Oh, and let's not forget the park on the other side of the Esplanade, DCA.
Originally Posted By danyoung >How do you know? How does anyone know what the reaction is?< Point taken. I was simply going off of what I've read online from the fan communities. And it seems to be running about 80-20 in favor of the changes. I'd think the general public would be even less likely to have a problem with the changes. But of course that's just speculation.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt I bet most people will ride it and not care or even notice that something has changed.
Originally Posted By Anatole69 Let's say you could cleverly hide Disney characters in an old Disney film. Blend them into the background in the same way the have been "blended" into the ride now. Then show that film to a 6 year old. Even if they enjoyed it, does that mean it helps the film? Or perhaps it's just a case of appealing to the lowest common demoninator and nothing more. Take this example even further: the film Roger Rabbit has the characters blended into the background, and is successful because it was part of the original conception of the film (not speaking about the original novel here, just the book). So this isn't bad in and of itself, as long as it is integral to the spirit of the artwork. - Anatole
Originally Posted By Anatole69 (not speaking about the original novel here, just the book) ---> Should read (not speaking about the original novel here, just the film) - Anatole
Originally Posted By danyoung Anatole, I completely agree with what you're saying. So it comes down to this - is the original design of iasw open enough to incorporate Disney characters, as long as they're themed to fit in with the existing structure? Some people are going to say no, while some are going to say yes. It's not a right or wrong issue, it's just about personal taste. And again, judging from what I've been reading online, quite a few folks are fine with the additions.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Hasn't Disney blended characters from other films for awhile now? Belle is in Hunchback, Simba is in Aladdin, etc. They don't advance the story, but people enjoy finding these things. So does it matter if the films are made with them, or if they were added later on, since they aren't integral to the story (spirit) of the artwork?
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<IAnatole69: haven't seen any reports of people standing outside the ride and polling people to get a reaction. All I have seen is the reaction of people posting on the Disney Forums, and that is a mixed reaction to say the least. Plus any poll that simply asks if people like the ride without also referencing why the changes were made and what Walt intended the ride to be is an incomplete poll... since if one didn't know about the UNICEF background and who Mary Blair was, then one can easily view IASW as just a nother theme park ride and only meant to be entertaining, and nothing more.>> So true. I’ve been involved in some of the polls DL has had, and I can definitely say that they word them so that they get the answers they want. Generally, they keep it simple, have the questions applied in a leading manner and are all yes or no questions that don’t allow clarification. So, you were in line to see IASW, either leery of the changes and waiting to see the show before making a decision or totally excited and looking forward to them. They come up and ask: “Are you here to see the Disney characters?” As most everyone was there to experience them, whether they like them or not, they count them all in the “Here to see Disney Characters” column. One way or another, they will make sure that their polls show that most people are thrilled at their addition.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Of course I will still visit the parks occasionally, but instead of fretting about this or that change, or how things used to be, I'll just enjoy the things I like and ignore the rest. I'm not knocking anyone who gets upset about this stuff, but I can't see any sense in doing so. It just isn't really all that important." Right. And in doing so, you don't let the negativity suck the joy out of the park. And if there gets to be too much bad stuff, you move on and find other things to so with your time and money that will give you joy. That's not soul crushing, that's healthy. "I personnally love Disney and I grew up with it as well and been to every resort around the world. So I like to see the parks stay in a positive direction and call it out when I dont see that. That said, I never had a HUGE problem with most of the changes as long as its still entertaining and fun. The character stuff bothers me, but only to a small degree. At the end of the day, it IS a theme park" Exactly. I'm not saying everyone has to like it (I'm not crazy about the idea of a USA room myself), but life goes on. It's easy enough to skip a ride you don't like when you visit. I do get some of the criticisms. I get that some don't think the art is the best fit (I haven't seen it, so I can't comment on this). I get that some don't want to see the characters added to everything. I'm not much bothered by it in this instance myself, but I get that people don't want to see the characters here. But I really don't get the "cheapens the message" charge. It's the same message whether the children of the world are delivering it alone or whether some Disney characters are helping out. It's still unmissable. You're getting hit with a 2X4 of a message. The fact that Ariel is helping deliver it doesn't lessen it.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo Actually, I just want to add that letting the bad stuff eat at you had got to be far more soul crushing than just letting it go.
