Originally Posted By Dabob2 FWIW, the quotes from that book are from none other than Marty Sklar (they're also in an earlier book, circa mid-70's I have, and he is credited as author).
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt >>An excerpt from the book Disneyland: The First Quarter Century, published in 1979 by Disney. "Disneyland, obviously, was never meant to be an "amusement park." The new concept in entertainment dedicated on July 17, 1955, was much more: a fabulous playground, something of a fair, a city from the Arabian Nights, a metropolis of the future. Above all, it was a place for people to find happiness and knowledge."<< I think it's safe to say that those lofty goals for Disney's parks were shelved a long time ago.
Originally Posted By danyoung >Disneyland, obviously, was never meant to be an "amusement park." < I think statements like this one are pure promotion. Of course DL and WDW are not like other amusement parks, but they ARE amusement parks by definition. They are also theme parks, which didn't exist before 1955. But to say that they're not places where people come and ride rides and eat food and play games - you know, an amusement park - is just playing with semantics.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Disney was a great promoter. Imagine how it would have fared without the TV shows. He had millions of people chomping at the bit to open the place. If it weren't for his showmanship, DL might not have ended up as seeming so magical as we all make it out to be.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "FWIW, the quotes from that book are from none other than Marty Sklar" I'm not surprised. If he wrote the opening paragraphs that start with "What is Disneyland?" then kudos to him, because I really love that description of Disneyland.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Yeah, as much as I love Disney and the spirit of the parks, the hyperbole gets to be too much sometimes, although its understandable considering where we are right now. But Disney IS just a theme park, first and foremost. Its not a magical place handbuilt by God and where jesus walked through, it was the dream of an entertainer and shrewd businessman who wanted to build something different and he did but also to PROMOTE his films and characters with which is quite ironic considering we KNOW this lol, but its now become viewed very differntly these days and at the end of the day the park is a place people ride rides, watch shows and eat food. The difference is the place ooozes atmosphere and showmanship like no other!! And because its so old now, the nostalgia factor adds to it immensely. The fact people are arguing over a ride that is older than many people on the boards tells us that. The fact that people feel offended because they feel the original, historical intent of that ride is changing tell me how strong that nostalgia factor really is. Truth is if IASW was built today as a new attraction and the characters were already included like HKDL, no one would care, honestly. If Disney sent out a press release saying IASW was a ride that envisioned children of the world singing in harmony for world unity along with several of our favorite characters no one would flinch. But now that it seems to be stepping on its original intent (to some people) tells me its a lot more about the past than the present. I mean how many times do I hear 'Mary Blair' in these threads over and over again? I just think though that most people are overly placing this high ideal on what the ride is suppose to represent and that somehow after you rode it your entire paradigm about the world suddenly shifts. I'm sorry I dont think that really happens for most. I think most just enjoy seeing the idea of these dolls representing different parts of the world and like how it all fuses together, nothing more. Again, I understand people are concerned with the changes and they have a legitimate reason why they dont like the changes. I'm not trying to argue against that at all. But I think when we start to believe this attractions message is something that is so profound and important that only adding Mickey and Woody destroys everything it stands for is taking it a tad too far. At the end of the day, IASW is for most a nice little ride to admire the artwork and decour and get out of the sun on the hot days. For me its ten minutes of agony lol. But the fact its been around so long is why its such an icon of the park and why some people hold it in a high regard, but to many I doubt any of them think 'world peace' when they ride it, sorry I just dont!! And the ones who DO relate the ride in that way, I dont see the characters taking that away either. To some, obviously . But to most, no, not really. I think in a few years when the controversy has died out people will focus on whatever they liked about the ride again and may gain some new fans along the way because of the additions as well (which I guess the point was) but we'll have to see first assuming none of yall tries to burn it down now ;D.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones WorldDisney, don't misrepresent admiration and respect for artists as religious devotion (and I don't even have that). "But the fact its been around so long is why its such an icon of the park and why some people hold it in a high regard, but to many I doubt any of them think 'world peace' when they ride it" I don't think guests are that stupid. Today, the message of world peace is muddled with characters, but all these years I really think people were understanding the message of the attraction. No, I don't think it shifted "paradigms" as you say. It was just a naive little theme park attraction that had the audacity to believe in a naive message in a cynical world.
Originally Posted By alexbook >>It was just a naive little theme park attraction that had the audacity to believe in a naive message in a cynical world.<< It's also an attraction that regularly brings tears to the eyes of adults. Will the new version do that? I'm going to ride it next month with my mom (not a Disnerd, nor a regular park goer). I'm guessing she hasn't heard about the changes, unless she caught something on "Entertainment Tonight" or some such. I'm going to be very curious to hear her reaction, if she has one.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<It's also an attraction that regularly brings tears to the eyes of adults>> It's true... the continuous looping of the song does make people cry.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss On a more serious note, can you back that statement up? How do you know it regularly makes guests cry? And how do you know that it won't continue to do so even with the changes?
Originally Posted By alexbook ^--Sorry, but I just don't get the bashing. I understand not liking it, but why the need to keep harping on about not liking it? Why not admit that other people might actually like something different from what you like?
Originally Posted By alexbook Sorry. 331 was for 329. >>How do you know it regularly makes guests cry?<< Open your eyes and look at your fellow guests. Talk to some of them. Listen to what they say when they get off IASW. Sure, some of them are talking about what to have for lunch, or what to ride next, and some are making cynical cracks about the repetitive song, but lots of them are clearly enraptured by the experience. >>And how do you know that it won't continue to do so even with the changes?<< I don't know that. I'm not coming down on the negative side, yet, but I'm skeptical.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss You're telling me you've stood at the exit and surveyed guests about their experience on IaSW? Sorry, but color me skeptical too. It's not like I haven't looked at other guests...it's virtually impossible not to when you're standing in line. I just haven't seen what you have. Happy, yes. Enraptured though, not really. <<Why not admit that other people might actually like something different from what you like?>. It works both ways, you know.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt How different is this version from the previous one? Unless I'm mistaken it seems like it's the exact same ride with a handful of new characters (many of which are hard to identify), new music in a few spots, and some long overdue sprucing up. If that's the case then I'm holding to my opinion that the harping over this is completely out of proportion to what has been done.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Upon reflection, I'll grant you that some guests may indeed have felt enraptured after riding IaSW. It could be because of the message of IaSW... or it could be because it was their first ride of the day, or the first ride they experienced as a child, it could be a place where someone proposed, etc. All of those things can and probably do happen on other rides as well.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<WorldDisney, don't misrepresent admiration and respect for artists as religious devotion (and I don't even have that).>> No, I dont, but the way people talk about it sometimes, it kind of comes off that way. And of course I respect what these people do, thats why we love the park as much as we do. I would love to that kind of talent or creative vision like these people do. I just think people get carried away when we talk about it, like changing an attraction is like destroying the soul of an artist and their work. But we are talking a theme park that they were employed under, these people dont have the kind of ownership to this stuff anymore then any other employee who signs a contract to do a job. At the end of the day, the company can do what it wants since it footed the bill. That said, I'm not saying spit on their work or anything, just making the point that most people who design and works on these things knows the score. In fact, its been noted its some of the same people who helped build this ride in the first place who has changed it. They probably dont feel their original work is not being stepped on because they know stuff either gets knocked down completely or shelved. The fact that they can at least make the changes with their signature is better then nothing. "But the fact its been around so long is why its such an icon of the park and why some people hold it in a high regard, but to many I doubt any of them think 'world peace' when they ride it" <<I don't think guests are that stupid. Today, the message of world peace is muddled with characters, but all these years I really think people were understanding the message of the attraction. No, I don't think it shifted "paradigms" as you say. It was just a naive little theme park attraction that had the audacity to believe in a naive message in a cynical world.>> But I think thats what some of us are saying now, the people arent THAT stupid now!! I think most of them will still retain what the attraction was about before, assuming they cared to begin with, WITH the characters. I dont see how its changed, but I only rode the HKDL version but it seems to come out fine for me. But maybe its because I knew what the thing was about and I went in with that mindset. I think, with common sense, if people knew what the ride was about before, they would still get the same message. The annoying song is still there and the other kids are doing what they been doing for 40 years on, what are we missing? But my main point is people are going on and on about how 'important' this ride is and how it seems to bring this newfound spirit everytime someone rides it. I just never really got that personnally although obviously I know what the attraction is about, but it hasnt been discussed this way on these boards or any other in years. Or maybe I just didnt pay attention like now.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<It's also an attraction that regularly brings tears to the eyes of adults. Will the new version do that?>> See, now THIS is what I'm talking about lol. Dude, I been on this this ride more times I care to remember for nearly 30 years ago with people of all ages and backgrounds on different continents.....and I dont remember anyone remotely shedding a tear riding after this thing at all. I never realized this attraction even inspired people on this level at all. Never EVER saw a thread that said, 'How many times have you cried on IASW?' Never! I almost came close a few times, but for all the wrong reasons ;D.
Originally Posted By alexbook >>You're telling me you've stood at the exit and surveyed guests about their experience on IaSW? Sorry, but color me skeptical too. It's not like I haven't looked at other guests...it's virtually impossible not to when you're standing in line. I just haven't seen what you have. Happy, yes. Enraptured though, not really.<< No, of course not. I'm not claiming I've done any actual research. I'm speaking from my personal experience, as are you. My experience is that many of the people I've talked to felt that this was more than just a ride. Not all, maybe not even a majority. But a significant number, so far as I could tell. Will the new version elicit the same comments? I don't know. I haven't been on it. I haven't talked to anybody who has been on it, other than CMs and LPers, who are hardly representative of the general population. >><<Why not admit that other people might actually like something different from what you like?>. It works both ways, you know.<< I'm not denying your right to not like the ride. I'm asking you not to belittle those who feel that it's something special.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss What have I said that is belittling? It's not like I don't think DL is special. Heck, I shed a tear when I stepped into Tokyo DisneySea on opening day in 2001. I'm just not understanding how the message of IaSW has been ruined. If I still see it, why can't you?
