Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance ^^^ It certainly is frustrating. Paying thousands of dollors (at least $2000 anyway) driving or flying hundreds of miles, then get there and have to weed through people and barely be able to do much because of all of the lines. If they had something they could offer these types of guests to make the crowds have less of an impact that would be nice. Otherwise people will stop coming from far off. Not me, of course! But others like me.
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 I wasn't talking about day ticket people, I was talking about AP holders. Obviously if they raised the price of an AP ticket people would get single day or multi-day tickets instead. I'm talking about those people who can finally go more than once a year and enjoy the park. Plus, what benefit is it to Disney to raise the price of an AP and loose a bunch of dedicated customers?
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 Think about it, they have 900,000 dedicated customers who will come at least twice to the park. They know they will buy at least something in the park even if it is a churro. Also, we all know what the off season used to look like at Disneyland. You could go on a Tuesday and hit everything by 1 in the afternoon. What good is that to Disney, now they have a park that is full year round bringing in a whole heck of a lot more money because of it. They get constant exposure, guaranteed money, and a park that never sleeps. I see no downside for Disneyland in its current program. Also, what is crowding to those on this board that don't like it. I go on Fridays all the time and the longest line I wait for is 35 min. I get fastpasses for the big rides and I also ride those in the morning when there is less people and shorter lines. I always manage to get my family of six people center seats for Fantasmic about an hour before showtime, as well as Hub seats for fireworks everything an hour before show time, we usually hit as a family 9-10 rides and when I'm by myself its around 15 rides. Maybe I'm lucky and all these years I only went on moderate days, but I think the over crowding is also a little blown out of proportion as well.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "I'm talking about those people who can finally go more than once a year and enjoy the park." Who cares if they go more than once a year when some people can't even go once?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "They know they will buy at least something in the park even if it is a churro." Does it really matter who buys the churro? Do 1-day ticket holders not buy churros?
Originally Posted By SafariRob "They know they will buy at least something in the park even if it is a churro." "Does it really matter who buys the churro? Do 1-day ticket holders not buy churros?" Of coarse they do. They probably buy more than a lot of the AP's. The point is well taken, though. Post 183 is spot-on IMHO. I've said it before. Everything Disney does in regards to the parks points toward their philosophy of selling more food and merchandise. AP's get people into the park. FP gets people of out line and into restaurants and shops. Disney doesn't want people buying one day tickets...and they certainly don't want people buying one day, one park tickets. They sell them because the HAVE TO but they make the price complete absurd to convince you that you save money by coming back for multiple days. You only save money if you were planning to come that many days in the first place. Disney is not interested in managing the crowds any more than they have to for safety and fire hazards. They want crowds because it means more food and merchandise sales. The light clicked on for me about ten years ago when I was visiting Sea World. They were basically giving away a second day at the park for an extra dollar. I remember thinking, “How can that be profitable?” Then it hit me. The shows go on no matter how many people are in the park. 5,000 or 50,000. It’s all the same to them. The difference is that 50,000 people buy a lot more than 5,000. Common sense, really. (I paid the dollar and went an additional day!) More people through the gate and NOT standing in line means VERY CROWDED WALKWAYS. Let's face it. The park was designed in 1955...for a mid 20th century demographic: families, one-day/once a year visits, and dare I say...a trimmer society in general. They paid every time they came to the park. They paid for each ride (in tickets). They stood in line. Wow, that felt really good to go off on a rant like that. I got started and couldn't stop. LP is my therapy! LOL.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt I think all you have to do is look at the past. History tells us that Disneyland has never had a sustained attendance decline following a price increase. If attendance slows all they have to do is roll out a temporary discount promotion and attendance soars. People moan about rate increases and yet there seems to be no limit to what people will pay to get their DLR fix.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 I really agree with most of 186 ... Disney isn't trying to thin the ranks of APers, despite the pablum Al Lutz and others often shovel. And it doesn't think crowding is nearly the problem some folks do. Disney raises prices because it wants to make more money and history has shown that it hasn't had to retrench (discount more sometimes, but not lower prices). Disney has been actively researching many ticket options, but the only reason they are doing so is to (follow along) make even more money. There's no doubt the proliferation of APers has wreaked havoc with the traditional models of when the parks will be busy and to what extent. But the idea they have made the parks unbearble and busy year-round is frankly just a crock. I had an AP from 1998-2008 and have visited three times since my last AP expired in late '08 ... everytime, I've heard the breathless pronouncements about how busy and intolerable the parks would be ... and it just hasn't been accurate at all. My trip a few weeks ago was the best example. I went on two full days (and one other WoC night) ... they were all weeknights ... all just after the cheapo APs (which aren't cheap anymore, after all) were allowed back in. I recall reading how wretched the parks would be with all those locals camping out to see WoC every night ... how packed both parks would be. Guess what? They weren't. No lines beyond one hour (and that was with Star Tours closed and even after Mansion, TSMM and Fantasmic ended). No trouble parking. No trouble getting FP's for WoC's famed blue section even late in the afternoon. In other words, a very pleasant visit (over three different days). I won't disagree there are times when DL is packed to the rafter. When it almost seems unsafely so. But I remember the same thing a decade ago when there was only one park and far, far fewer APers. As to what are fair AP price points, I have a hard time with that. The PAP that I had until 2007 (and for years was $199!) is now what $459 (or almost $150 more than I pay for four parks in FLA) ... but it's also a whole lot less than an $800-plus two-park AP in Tokyo too ... and a whole lot more than my 129 Euro DLP AP (which is good like 320 some days annually and includes parking and numerous discounts). I think it all comes down to what the local markets can/will bear. And Disney has been very good at hitting that sweet spot. Just my dime's worth ...
Originally Posted By ecdc I just read this whole thread and was waiting for what 183 and 186 basically say. Comments about how more expensive APs or other pricing would get Disneyland making the same money but get the sidewalks less crowded are the dreams of consumers but certainly not the goal of Disney. Disney of course can't make "the same money." They need to show their investors growth quarter after quarter. Their goal is people paying more money AND having sidewalks packed. Their goal is having the maximum number of guests buying food and merchandise. That's really the purpose of any research like this. Do not make the mistake of thinking that people on a message board have thought about this more than Disney. No question they have detailed, carefully culled data on the impact of APs, the revenue brought in by tourists vs. revenue brought in by locals, etc. (The flip-side is companies often get so drowned in their own data that they lose perspective about their customers.) As a consumer and Disneyland fan, I hate the randomness of the crowds. Even 8 years ago, when my wife and I started going to Disneyland, we could predict with some certainty when the park would be most crowded and plan accordingly. Each subsequent year it gets more and more random. It's tough and it probably will lead to less visits or shorter stays in the future. But that's my personal experience bumping up against the reality of what Disney has. If they can have people paying a lot and keep the park packed uncomfortably to the gills day after day, they'll do it. The only thing that will clear the sidewalks is a decline in perceived value. If enough people get sick of the crowds (unlikely) then Disney will change.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I just read this whole thread and was waiting for what 183 and 186 basically say.<< Sorry, 186 and 188.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones I'd like to clarify that my idea to raise the price of annual passes is not to thin crowds. Under my plan I don't think the crowd levels would change, but the distribution of crowds may change, I think. Things like annual passholders showing up with themselves and no one else in a single vehicle wouldn't be as common and parking wouldn't be the problem it is today. I think my plan would change who visits and how they visit. That is, more 1-day and multi-day visitors (who stay in hotels) and less passholders. In my view, it is better that more people be able to visit Disneyland at least once than it is to have few people visit Disneyland a lot, which was the whole point of explaining marginal benefit and all that nonsense. And yes, they'll buy overpriced churros while they are there.
Originally Posted By SafariRob Post 189: "The only thing that will clear the sidewalks is a decline in perceived value." Rain does a pretty good job of that, too. If you ever have a chance to visit in the rain, DO IT! You won't be sorry.
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<This would fix the over crowding caused by the AP and distribute the cost per turnstile click across all of the visitors.>> APs create crowded parks. That is exactly what TDA wants. There is no "problem" to be "fixed." For TDA, APs are the solution, not a problem.
Originally Posted By Socrates Sorry I'm late, but one thing I'd like to see discussed (& #186 touched on it)is how does Disney's AP program compare to other parks? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 Most parks just do a season pass. Universal Studios Hollywood offers an annual pass. It's best pass is 129 which is like the premium pass for Disneyland except that it is only free parking until 5 PM. However (personally) Universal studios is not worth it at all. I have an annual pass simply because it is so cheep, but even on the busy days you can do the whole park in 5 hours. Disneyland Resort offers a million more things and their rides are a lot better! A Disney AP pass you are paying for a lot more than any other theme park. Think about all the SoCal parks, which ones offer nearly the same amount of free entertainment, number of rides, the cleanliness, the stories, the attention to ever little detail - the answer - None! Not even Knotts. The Disneyland Resort is just in another league from every other SoCal park and most theme parks in the world for that matter.
Originally Posted By mikeginla I think the best option would be to sell season passes that are good for a certain amount of visits. An annual pass with 12 visiting would be more than enough for most people. If someone wanted to go more days they could pay fines, like the blackout day fines. With the visit limitation it would also cut down on the crowds that ruin the park experience for everyone. I know I will take heat on this one, but I think it is not good for the company to have season pass holders going to the parks 5 times a week. They overcrowd the park and make the experience less enjoyable to guests paying full price.
