Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "How could they stop a friend from riding and handing it off to their friend to ride right after?" Well that would be difficult, but how many people visiting the parks as a group of two or people would actually do that? Theoretically you could do the same thing with a Fastpass, but I would guess that the trouble of waiting for a friend to take a 15 minute ride on every attraction in the park so that you could take your turn would be so cumbersome that it would kill the fun. I don't know. >>Most of this stuff seems to be designed to distribute crowds more efficiently.<< "Except for the no-rides-pass, which only serves to create more crowds. It doesn't matter how they are distributed, they are simply people in the walkways making it more difficult to get around." You already have those people. They are called APs. I would assume that these touring passes would not be available during peak seasons. In any case, if these folks are just dropping in to look at seasonal decorations or have dinner at The Winery and aren't riding, then they aren't standing in line, which doesn't impact wait times.
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance How is the holiday extra ticket any different than what they are doing with Halloween this year? What are they doing with the multi-day tickets then?
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones At the end of the day, you pay, be it in time or in money. Those with little money and a lot of time will opt for standing in line. Those with a lot of money and little time will opt for all-day Fastpasses. Time is just another form of currency. Or you could call time a unit of exchange.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones I think the most (or more) efficient way to operate the parks would be this system. You would institute a smart card system in which you could load with funds. To enter each attraction, you would tap your card on a sensor and it would automatically deduct funds. The greeter could oversee the process or Disney could install fare gates or do both. Guests could choose to tap to enter either the standby line or the Fastpass line. Those with a lot of time and relatively little money would choose standby. Those with a lot of money and little time could choose the Fastpass line. The standby lines would have a fixed price. The Fastpass lines would feature dynamic pricing. The price changes depending on how many people are in line. All of the nifty equations that would allow the pricing system to work would be determined by statisticians and economists who look at the data, run regressions and figure out the optimum prices. Or something like that. There would also be a dynamic cost to enter the park in the first place. There would be a cost in the first place to keep free-riders out (there is a benefit to enjoying Disneyland's overall atmosphere). The price would be dynamic in order to maintain safe levels of crowds. This system does two things. First, it forces people to think about the marginal cost of their enjoyment of the park, preventing overuse and shortages. Second, it allows people to enjoy Disneyland at their own pace and in their own style. Grandma certainly visits Disneyland differently than young Billy. There are most likely flaws in my system, but I think it's pretty good for an effortless Internet post.
Originally Posted By YumaJohn My rationale for bringing back tickets is thus... It would give the individual control over how much they are willing to spend. If the kids want to ride a lot but Mom and Dad don't it will be cheaper. This, however is second to the real reason I want tickets. If DL made money on individual rides they would immediately have a huge incentive to plus the park in great ways. Nobody goes into Lincoln? IT'S GONE! Empty PeopleMover tracks? LOST MONEY! Huge ridership on Indy? RAISE THE PRICE! Less lines all around. I have no doubt that I will get blasted for this heresy, but that's OK. I'm a big boy and I can handle it I'm just kinda thinking out loud anyway!
Originally Posted By Terminus HERETIC! Just kidding. I see what you're trying to say, but realistically, if you can get Mom and Dad to pay the SAME PRICE as everyone else and still not ride the rides, isn't that better (for Disney)?
Originally Posted By YumaJohn It is better for Disney, but not necessarily for US! And aren't we the only ones who matter?HaHa
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones In regard to those small attractions that could not pay for themselves, I would actually make them free. I remember reading that during the days of ticket books, there were some activities that did not require an individual ticket. Also, at the end of the day it isn't just the bottom line that matters. There is real value in keeping around a Lincoln or a Tiki Room that doesn't necessarily pay off huge dividends. I think it's perfectly okay for the E-Tickets to "subsidize" the A, B and C tickets, if it comes to that. My plan isn't to say that the operation of Disneyland should be dictated entirely by quantitative thinking, but qualitative thinking as well. There's an artistic factor to consider. I would also call it dignity.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I've never liked the idea of allowing guests to buy what would equate to an all day fastpass. It's just not fair to others!!!<<< This already exists at DLP. Baby Switch and Single rider I am happy with, but I wish they would get rid of FP altogether.
Originally Posted By tashajilek I think the ticket system is a bad idea. At first they would try it out and see how many people would pay for tickets. When they are successful with making $$ they will jack up the ticket prices so people can only afford a few rides on their trip. Thankfully i dont think Disney will ever resort back to this.
Originally Posted By SFH Two pieces discussing pay-per-play... <a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID111330.asp" target="_blank">http://www.laughingplace.com/N...1330.asp</a> <a href="http://www.laughingplace.com/News-ID111360.asp" target="_blank">http://www.laughingplace.com/N...1360.asp</a>
Originally Posted By CuriouserConstance Seems like the pay per play option would only benefit people who barely ride or do anything, or the locals who go to the park often. What about the family (like mine) who save for months to afford a trip and the entire family want to see and do it all as many times as possible while we are there? The locals already get in for a very small amount of money when broken down per each trip. They could have it as a separate option, but I don't think it'd be fair to get rid of the one price for all option.
Originally Posted By tashajilek ^^^ Could you imagine you have to budget and pick which rides you can afford haha that would suck.
Originally Posted By u k fan <<<>>>I've never liked the idea of allowing guests to buy what would equate to an all day fastpass. It's just not fair to others!!!<<< This already exists at DLP. Baby Switch and Single rider I am happy with, but I wish they would get rid of FP altogether.>>> Yes, and I'm not happy with that. It's only available to an absolute minority of guests each day so doesn't really affect anything. I think that making this perk available to a wider market would be a mistake especially at WDW (I know we're talking about DL here)!!!
Originally Posted By cheesybaby <<^^^ Could you imagine you have to budget and pick which rides you can afford haha that would suck.>> Not only can I imagine it, I can remember it. That's the way it worked for every visitor until 1984 (DL and WDW). There were definite advantages to the ticket system, just as there as definite advantages to the current system.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <This sounds like a plan that one of the accountants came up with before consulting the industrial engineering team. Fine ideas on paper, but they just won't work so well once you start trying to do it with real people.> Yeah, except for the multi-year AP's, the other schemes would require at least a machine at each entrance to check if you were entitled to ride. And machines have glitches, meaning a cm would have to be somewhere near to attend to crises that would inevitably arise ("My pass worked, my wife's worked, but little Billy's didn't. Are you telling me he can't ride Peter Pan?") Also, placing the stations near the entrances would look weird with some attractions (like Peter Pan, come to think of it). The alternative is placing them nearer the start point of the ride (as they used to do with live ticket takers) but how many people would get in a 1-hour line only to get to the machine and then not be allowed through? True, in the old days you could do the same thing and if you were out of E tickets when you got to the ticket taker, you were out of luck. But people seemed a little smarter then somehow (and not as filled with a sense of entitlement), plus you've had years of everybody just being able to do anything once inside the park, and they're used to that. The other alternative is placing a cm at each entrance to check if everyone is allowed to ride, but that of course jacks up labor costs. Bottom line is that these "partial access" schemes would REDUCE the cost of a day's admission, and it seems unlikely to me that Disney would do that, since they get crowds filling the parks nearly every day paying either full price or nearly so (3 or 4 day hoppers) or AP's. As for fp's, I think the unlimited fp proposal is way overpriced. In my experience, if the park is crowded, your 1 hour window opens pretty naturally anyway. If it's not crowded, you often don't even need the pastpass. One time we got unlimited fp's as a perk for staying on property (since discontinued), and didn't find it THAT much of an advantage. Certainly not for the price they're proposing. I guess if they're going to continue not being strict about the return time, you could just send a "runner" out and get fp's in the morning for everything, and then could ride them all even during the most crowded hours. But in practice (and based on that experience when we actually had them), I don't see it being THAT beneficial. The late afternoon/evening pass might work. Actually quite a lot of parks do that. I don't see how the morning-to-early-afternoon pass would work, though. How do you know someone's time is up, and how do you kick them out? Presumably, they're not even allowed "touring" privileges after that. If they're allowed to stay, but not ride, you've got the whole "who's allowed to ride?" problem as above.
Originally Posted By a1stav I just saw a ticket for the opening of Indiana Jones Adventure. Price $31 for a single day. Adjusted for inflation that would be $44.30 for a single park single day ticket. There has been nothing "new" added to DL since Indiana Jones (there has been some very good refreshes of old attractions, subs etc.). I think Disney should get rid of the AP and lower the price of a single day ticket to $50
Originally Posted By tashajilek "Not only can I imagine it, I can remember it. That's the way it worked for every visitor until 1984 (DL and WDW). There were definite advantages to the ticket system, just as there as definite advantages to the current system." I was at a fair last weekend and to ride the wooden rollercoaster it would cost 22 for 2 people!! and that isnt Disneyland. I couldnt imagine what the asking prices would be for Indy or SM. I would think that far less people would go and Disney losing $$$. They stopped the ticket system for some reason?
Originally Posted By danyoung >Could you imagine you have to budget and pick which rides you can afford haha that would suck.< You may be too young to remember, but that's EXACTLY what everyone had to do back in the ticket book days. Whenever we went to DL in the 60's, we would barely be able to afford what they called the Big 15 ticket book. It contained 5 E tickets, 4 D's, 3 C's, 2 B's and 1 A. Of course the E tickets were for the cool rides like the Matterhorn or Pirates or the Jungle Cruise. We knew we could only ride 5 of the cool rides, so we had to budget and decide ahead of time what we wanted to do and what to skip. Imagine standing outside of the Haunted Mansion, wanting to go in, but you can't cuz you've already spent your E tickets for the day. Trust me - one price admission is MUCH better!
