Originally Posted By RangerPooh KT Said: "And in Georgia our judges are UNTRA conservative! They arrest and lock up married people who are having affairs ( you want to keep in mind that it is a crime to be engaging in relations outside your marriage ). Yes in RI and GA.. our judges take the laws very seriously" Sorry KT, Georgia no longer associates extra-marital affairs with criminal acts. In 2003 the Georgia Supreme Court struck down Georgia's anti-sodomy/anti-fornication laws (that were only enforced punitively when the police couldn't make anything else stick) indicating that the ONLY way it could be prosecuted is if it is either non-concentual, for money, for between an adult and a minor. Furthermore, even in Georgia, the definition of child abuse is strictly defined to: 1) Physical injury or death inflicted upon a child by a parent or caretaker thereof by other than accidental means; provided, however, physical forms of discipline may be used as long as there is no physical injury to the child; 2) Neglect or exploitation of a child by a parent or caretaker thereof. Neglect is defined in terms of deprivation of adequate food, clothing, shelter, or medical care. 3) Sexual abuse of a child; or 4) Sexual exploitation of a child. So, according to your own state laws... where does Disney World Fit? I proudly take my babies to DL AND WDW. By having life roll on with or without child, the kid learns to be an active member of the family and get a head start at adjusting to the world around them. I dont for a second think that our girls will remember all the details of each trip. However, the exposure to lights, people, sounds, smells.. is laying the groundwork for a child that is unfazed when encountering confusing situations in the future. The added bonus is that WE, the parents, get the memories of going on Pooh, or Dumbo...BTW, getting them to the parks early has also helped us avoid our kids being scared of the characters. Bottom line, I think each person knows best how to parent their own children. Some will take them to the parks, some will not. There is no need to judge either. Each will have fantastic children. I for one will continue with disney vacations with young children in tow (in stroller or backpack..lol). BTW...ourmagicears, Good luck on the adoption process. I hope you guys get to make your next trip a wonderful family bonding experience. I have alot of respect for adoptive and foster parents.
Originally Posted By Coachbagfanatic1 ourmagicears First let me say good luck to you and your family. I think it's wonderful thing that you guys are doing. I have watched this thread get deeper and deeper and boy it scares me as to some of the references that have been said regarding child abuse. I have seen child abuse first hand and taking your young children to Disney is not even close nor does it compare. We've taken our son when he was 6 months old to Disney and we all had a blast. Does he remember it no but the pictures tell a story of his first trip and we have a great time telling him about it. We knew our limitations and we also knew to respect other people when we went to certain shows. We always sat at the edge of the row and closes to the exit. This way if we had to leave we did without disrupting other people. People raise their children differently and just because it's not the same as you would do or have done does not make it wrong. It's just their way.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I think KT probably made some statements that were stronger than he really meant, and now that the horse is out of the barn doesn't quite know how to get it back in. I certainly hope so. I'm sure that even if parents are found without fault by investigators, just the accusation would be devastating to them. I would hope that professionals in a position to make these reports would exercise a little care in making them.
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey <<People raise their children differently and just because it's not the same as you would do or have done does not make it wrong. It's just their way.>> We all know that isn't true. Some guy was just arrested here in New Orleans for holding his son's hand to a hot stove to teach him a lesson about burns. Another man up north put his 23 month old daughter outside in the freezing cold because she wouldn't go back to sleep and she froze to death. They think it's ok to raise their child that way, but we all know it's not. I'm not saying that anyone posting on this board would do such a thing, and as I said, I don't think bringing an infant to WDW is tantamount to child abuse, but I certainly wouldn't do it. I don't think bringing a week old child to a theme park is going to help them adjust. I think that when you have a child, YOU need to adjust to your child. As far as disappointing your other children in regards to a planned WDW vacation because an adoption came through, I think the kids will get over the disappointment. We took my nephew to WDW with us for the first time last year. We don't want him to miss school again this year, and we can't afford to take him, so we have to leave him home. He's disappointed, but he'll get over it. You can call me old fashioned if you want, but I think the first few weeks with a newborn should be spent at home, getting that child adjusted to his family and his permanent surroundings, not getting he/she adjusted to a theme park.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Comparing taking a child to a grocery store to taking a child to WDW is like comparing apples to oranges. < that quote was in the context of being exposed to germs -- it is certainly NOT apples to oranges. It is the same situation
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Seeing as how a significant number of newborns in this country go home with substance abusing teenaged mothers to roach infested tenements in violent neighborhoods, I really don't think taking a newborn to WDW is that big a deal.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Oops, my memory has jarred a disturbing memory. I did, in fact, take my older son to Epcot when he was a baby and we took him to the Living Seas. It occurs to me that we actually went on the hydrolators. I certainly did put him in jeopardy as, if the hydrolators came back up to the surface too fast, he might have got violently ill with the bends. Man, I am wracked with guilt now.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy TDLFAN is right. If babies, kids, and minors weren't allowed in the parks, then this wouldn't be an issue. ;-)
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "But come on folk infants at WDW." Mikey was 3 months on his 1st DLP visit, and Jess was 5 mths. They were fantastic trips!
Originally Posted By RangerPooh NikkyLOVESmickey, Of course those actions are not OK, I was not refering to that in my post. Those are both actions that ARE clearly abuse. I was stating that some people take their children to WDW (Even on the....hydrolaters!..lol) and some do not. People who don't take their children, while I think they are missing out, are not doing anything intrinsically wrong. On the flip side, people who do take their children are great as well. I prefer the latter however..lol Either way, taking a child to Disney World or not should not be a moral issue. It is a simple choice that each parent has the right to make without others getting involved.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo "I think taking a one week old to WDW is insane. I wouldn't call it child abuse, but I think that's just crazy. Babies that little should be at home." I agree with that, but I would say 3 months is fine. Particularly if there are older siblings. WDW is a great treat for them, and why should they be penalised because mom and dad wanted to get it on 1 year previously???!!!
Originally Posted By RangerPooh oh, sorry.... jumped on it too fast, thought that was referring to my post.... but I bet coachbagfanatic would agree!...lol
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb I agree taking a 1 week old anywhere is insane... only because 1 week after giving birth I was in NO shape for any kind of trip (this does not apply to a-parents).
Originally Posted By RangerPooh again... a personal opinion. After the birth of my first daughter, I was 100% after about a week. After #2, I was working, back to long walks etc. after 2 days. Each person is different.
Originally Posted By debtee I'm trying hard to understand why anyone in your position Tom would think that making comments like you have in this thread can help in any way for the REAL fight against child abuse? All you have succeed in doing is deflecting people's thoughts from serious crimes on children, to a minor arguement about loving parents taking their children on a vacation! Good one!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I feel like I'm reading the rules my old country great grandmas had for babies...do not leave the house with your baby until they are 8 months old. Aye yi yi, this is WAY over the top.<< Indeed. My son's first trip to Disneyland was at 6 weeks old. Reading the hysteria in this thread, I'm amazed he didn't come home with malaria.
Originally Posted By mj9401 Taking a 3 month old to WDW = child abuse...what an utterly ridiculous thing to say!!!
Originally Posted By bobbelee9 Ever been to an Italian family gathering? That's a lot more noisey than TGMR.
Originally Posted By TALL Disney Guy All I know is, as rare as I have been to a Disney park, I would be royally ticked at my parents if I dreamed of "finally going" to a Disney park one day only to be brushed off with, "Oh honey, we took you when you were a baby!" Well fine for you, but *I* don't remember it! So just as long as you baby-totin' people remember to go again when the tot is old enough to remember and enjoy the trip. ;-) (and again and again and again if you're so lucky)
Originally Posted By NikkiLOVESMickey << <Comparing taking a child to a grocery store to taking a child to WDW is like comparing apples to oranges. < that quote was in the context of being exposed to germs -- it is certainly NOT apples to oranges. It is the same situation >> No it's not, unless you spend eight hours or so at the grocery and are surrounded by thousands of people while at that same grocery. I'm sorry, but I believe that when you have a baby you put the child first, especially during the first few weeks. The child needs to get on his or her own schedule and adjust to family life. Taking a kid to WDW at a week old and surrounding them with thousands of strangers and their germs (many of whom are probably sick and toughing it out because they didn't want to miss the trip to WDW) is just wrong. Frankly, I think it's selfish. I would take my niece to WDW when we leave next Saturday if I could, and she's not yet two. I know she's not going to remember it once she gets older, but I know she would have a blast. You can't say that about a week old baby.
