Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <<< Would "California Adventure" be so horrible? The park is literally right next to Disneyland - I don't think anyone will think it belongs to some other company!>>> "If all they advertised was California Adventure, then many people may not know that it's right next door to DL." It has the Disney name now and 10 years after it opened people still don't know that there are two parks in Anaheim. How is it that EPCOT has survived all these years without being Disney branded?
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "When you buy passes such as a park hopper that gives it away right there." A lot of the people outside of Southern California who haven't been in twenty years still think the park is still surrounded by a parking lot. Over the years Disney really hasn't done much to change the perception that DLR is more than just DL Park for people who aren't familiar with the place.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<EPCOT and the Magic Kingdom are already well established.>> Sure NOW obviously but they had to start from the ground up like the rest. At the time, Disney didnt seem in such a rush to tack on their name to these parks like they do these days. I dont personnally care if they do or dont, but yeah, they are just TOO MUCH of a mouthful for people, everyone just short hand the thing anyway. We're too lazy to even type these names out anymore lol, I cant imagine calling every Disney attraction, hotel and park by its full official name. You would litterally come off sounding like an idiot: "Lets go spend a day at Disney California Adventure and go to Toy Story Midway Mania after we get passes for Soarin Over California and Twilight Zone Tower of Terror and then go back to Disney's Grand California Hotel to have a bite to eat for lunch." No one wants to sound this anal! People only sound like that in their commercials.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<Over the years Disney really hasn't done much to change the perception that DLR is more than just DL Park for people who aren't familiar with the place.>> True, so why not just call the place California Adventure, and when they do commercials, they can make sure to say "California Adventure at the Disneyland Resort" - that should help people make the connection.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> Over the years Disney really hasn't done much to change the perception that DLR is more than just DL Park for people who aren't familiar with the place. << That certainly hasn't been helped by DCA getting quite a bit of negative publicity since 2001. It has received some truly poor reviews in, as one example, various travel guides sold at bookstores throughout America. Such publications tend to pull their punches and try to sound generally upbeat and boosterish. But I recall one in particular that cast DCA in such a poor light, I almost had to cringe. As for the new logo, I guess it's better to have "Disney" instead of "Disney's," if only because there is a DisneySea and not a Disney's Sea. I still think having the park themed to "California" makes people dismiss DCA as a place of limited scope and scale. As a place that sounds too much like "Six Flags Over Georgia," or, more fittingly, "Michigan's Adventure" -- <a href="http://www.miadventure.com" target="_blank">http://www.miadventure.com</a>. I know I'd be less interested in traveling hundreds (or certainly thousands) of miles to visit a "Disney Florida Adventure," a "Disney New York Adventure," or a "Disney Texas Adventure." Moreover, that's without even considering how the "California" brand has become rather tarnished over the past several years.
Originally Posted By xrayvision For me, the logo change will have no impact my visiting experience at DLR as I will still go to DCA and look forward to enjoying the park’s current, new and upcoming offerings. And again, there’s no ‘s in the names of Disneyland, Walt Disney World, Walt Disney Studios, Tokyo Disney Seas nor Disney Cruise Line. My only slight issue with the new logo is that it doesn’t seem to match the total experiences to be enjoyed when you walk into the park. How does the cartoonish font style match with the realist design of the Pan Pacific Theater facade or Buena Vista Street that will be used for DCA's new entrance? I assume that this cartoon logo will not be used in the park's entrance gate signage, to be located on top of the Pan Pacific facade (as drawn on prior artist renderings of the new entrance and as currently used in signage for DHS's similar entry gate). And, if it's not used to represent the park at the entrance, is the message of the cartoonish DCA branding disjointed with the park's new realist, iconic visual design from the front gate to the end of Buena Vista Street and beyond (including the Carthay Circle Theater, Red Trolley Cars, Pan Pacific ect.). While a Disney cartoon did premiere in one of these iconic structures being represented in it's realist form at the park, there's nothing cartoony about those icons themselves that you will see when you walk inside DCA. The themes and facade designs of most of the park's lands also do not convey a cartoonish experience, with the exception of A Bug's Land and Carsland. Yet, those two toon-based districts are not the only lands in the park, which also includes Pacific Wharf, Golden State and Hollywood Pictures Backlot. It is debatable if Paradise Pier, which was more realist in original design as an pier amusement park of California’s past, can now be considered a toon district with the Paradise Pier lake now surrounded by such attractions as Toy Story Mania, Mickey’s Fun Wheel, Silly Symphony Swings, King Triton’s Carousel, Little Mermaid and Goofy’s Flight School. Yet, even with these offerings, the message evoked from the new logo, which prominently features a heavy cartoon font design, does not seem to convey DCA’s true total park experience. The redesigned park’s building facades and transportation system will still be a realist nod to California history and icons, with some cartoon whimsy included inside. Such cartoonish indignity being used to spell out “California,” when it’s attached to built-out realistic recreations of the state’s icons, is like calling the state a joke as though it were just one big visual gaffe. I love my native home state, and the buffoony-cartoony font representing real California icons is what slightly concerns (and maybe annoys me) about the new logo. Again, the new logo will have little affect on me entering and enjoying DCA’s park offerings as I usually do. However, it may reduce my selection of gift items that I will want to purchase at DCA shops to bring home as gifts, as I usually do (if the cartoon logo is included all the DCA themed merchandise).
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< People cant be that ignorant to not know there is a second Disney Park in anaheim. When you buy passes such as a park hopper that gives it away right there. >>> That covers only people that buy tickets. I'm referring to the large number of people that aren't regular park-goers and perhaps haven't gone to DL in the past 10 years. Certainly, those folks are going to at some point be a major marketing target to increase the customer base. I would have thought that they'd wait until the DCA makeover was complete in 2012, but there are a few indications that they'll start this summer when WoC opens.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Re #66: remember that the font used for the Disneyland logo a). looks very "Fantasyland," even though that's just one of the lands on offer and b). isn't used at the entrance. At the train station entrance they have a rather plain (but appropriate for a train station) font that is completely different than the main font used in all advertising, on the original marquee, etc. So if they keep this logo for DCA (and I agree it's a little cartoony for my taste - of course, I've been talking about over-tooning of all the parks for a long time), it wouldn't be unprecedented that it doesn't evoke every area of the park or that it not be used at the entrance.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>I know I'd be less interested in traveling hundreds (or certainly thousands) of miles to visit a "Disney Florida Adventure," a "Disney New York Adventure," or a "Disney Texas Adventure."<< Only geeky theme park buffs really care about that kind of stuff. I believe that the average person wants to know what's beyond the gates and isn't all that interested in the theme or any such thing. Disney's biggest marketing mistake with DCA was not distinguishing its content from from DL - or any other theme park for that matter. I'm seeing ads around the Bay Area for Summer Nightastic and I've seen no references for DCA in any of them.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt BTW, disneywatcher, I didn't mean to imply that you are a "geeky theme park buff" any more than I am. I was simply trying to distinguish between those who keep track of these things and those who don't.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I'm seeing ads around the Bay Area for Summer Nightastic and I've seen no references for DCA in any of them. >>> That's because the general public believes that DCA sucks.
Originally Posted By mickeymorris1234 I was looking at the new logo and I think it is temporary until the theater is built at the main entrance. You see how they used the Fun Wheel like DCA "castle" It is the second tallest thing in DCA and it is completely Disney unlike TOT. I think that is what they are going with with the logo. Making the Fun Wheel the "castle" for DCA since right now that area is and will be the most popular section in the park. Once they open the theater or once it is prominently in the center of the park I think the logo will change again to focus on that with Mickey somewhere to keep the toony aspect of things.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I believe that the average person wants to know what's beyond the gates and isn't all that interested in the theme or any such thing. << If anything, I think the average person, particularly one not into "Disney," will want to spend only a few seconds of time in figuring out what "California Adventure" is all about. "California?," he or she will think. "That sounds regional to me, like a place geared to local residents." Or he or she will think: "Sounds about as impressive, creative or interesting as a textbook geography lesson." Some may even think: "California? Isn't that place kind of a big mess right now?!! High unemployment, full of red ink, stuck with problems straight out of Mexico and Greece?!" On that fateful day in the 1990s at the DisCo conference in Aspen, it would have been so very easy (and so inexpensive) to come up with an idea that did not strap down Disney's second park in Anaheim to the theme of "California."
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "California?," he or she will think. "That sounds regional to me, like a place geared to local residents." I don't think so. I think it's more likely that they'd be interested in content or what's actually IN the place. After all, what is DL about exactly? People don't walk away from DL talking about the theme or themes of the place, they talk about the rides and experiences within.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA "It is not the theme -- it is the execution of said theme." - Jim in Merced CA
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA If the name of a park is what determines someone going in, how the hell do you explain... "Knott's Berry Farm" "Six Flags Magic Mountain" "Great America" None of them, on the surface 'say' anything particularly exciting...
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> I don't think so. << Geographic names perhaps don't have as much impact on you as they do on others, or certainly me. For example, if I knew only the name of the second Disney park in Tokyo was -- in an alternative reality -- "Disney Japan Adventure" instead of "DisneySea," I'd immediately think of something very provincial and limited. I'd muse, "Do they serve only sushi and teriyaki there? Do they focus mainly on tea-drinking ceremonies, flower arrangements, home electronics, brands of sake, Shinto shrines, judo and karate demonstrations? For a theme park from the DisCo, that sounds rather limited." Or if there was a "Disney New York Adventure," I'd think it was a place devoted to Wall Street, skyscrapers, Coney Island, Central Park, Times Square. A park that was provincial and, again, rather limited in scope. But I will say that if DCA had been designed from the beginning in a truly first-class, inspired way, then, yes, the "California" theme would not be a major drag on it. But when so many pieces of the DCA puzzle have been missing, bent or tattered since the 1990s, every aspect of it -- including its theme -- becomes that much more important.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <If the name of a park is what determines someone going in, how the hell do you explain... "Knott's Berry Farm" "Six Flags Magic Mountain" "Great America" None of them, on the surface 'say' anything particularly exciting...> Not to mention... EPCOT. I would guess fewer than 1 in 5 (if that) of EPCOT visitors even know what it stands for; if they did, they might be mystified - little if anything there (even FW) has anything to do with a "community" of tomorrow, a concept that was best seen in the old Progress City in the CoP, but was jettisoned for EPCOT itself long before it even opened, and then there's that other international-themed half that has nothing whatsoever to do with it. Yet, EPCOT is a fine park because much of what's in it works very well. DW, you lost this one. The CA theme (and name) isn't going anywhere, and the coming changes, especially the 2012 changes, reinforce it. They look to be fine additions (and so does WOC, opening in less than two weeks!) and ultimately that's what people will care about. Just as EPCOT is, to most visitors, "that park with the big sphere, and those other things we like, like Test Track and Soarin' (the highest rated attraction in all of WDW, and of course a DCA original) and the great lagoon show and the American Adventure..." and don't care that the American Adventure, say, has absolutely nothing to do with anything in the acronym of EPCOT, DCA will be to most visitors "that park we like with Soarin' and the Cars Racers and the cool animation building and the great lagoon show..." and they simply won't care how closely or un-closely it hews to California - even though it will always hew closer to that theme than EPCOT will to anything like an "experimental prototype community of tomorrow."
Originally Posted By xrayvision Disneywatcher, I totally get what you're saying. Looking at North American attractions, we have attractions that may fall under a geographic themes with somewhat limited offerings, particularly in Las Vegas - 1) New York, New York Resort - With offers a facade New York skyline, Brooklyn Bridge, Statue of Liberty, Manhattan themed themed coaster, NY themed shops and restaurants, with some interior theming in public areas including casinos. 2) Paris Resort - E. Tower and some interior Paris inspired theming in restaurants, shops and casinos. 3) Monte Carlo, Rio and other geographically themed casino resorts. As far as North American parks go, there are parks well visited that also have geographical locations included in their park names, which reflect the park's original theme rather than reflects a target market that the park want or is serving. Here are some of those parks: 1) Six Flags over Georgia - well visited by guests from all over the Southeast and other U.S. areas, not just Georgians, because it has been a well managed park. Not sure if they sell grits or biscuits/gravy for breakfast (they may), but they do serve regular American theme park food as well. And, they have great rides and entertainment. 2) Busch Gardens Europe (The Old Country) - Williamsburg, VA. This park has made on Top 10 lists for its services, theming and great rides. And, their target market is all tourism to the Northeastern area, including tourism to historic Williamsburg. 3) Busch Gardens Africa (The Dark Continent) - Tampa, FL. International Orlando tourism feeds tourism into this park, as well as regional tourism. 4) Fiesta Texas - Does have regional appeal, but its' original theme was not limited in scope to its' regionality but also presented musical offering throughout the decades and reasons to celebrate. 5) San Diego Zoo - International tourism...not just a zoo for San Diego locals. The Sea World parks used to have the state name, where they were located, included their titles. Yet, the animals on display at each park were not usualy indigenous to the regions where the parks were located (although they may have an exhibit on local animals). Seafood was not overly presented in their dining offerings. And, each park had their markets, which for Orlando and San Diego relied on more than local markets...and did include international tourism. There is also Canada's Wonderland here in North America, which I have not visited to make a comment on. Not sure if Kentucky Kingdom is still open (however, it was regional).
