Originally Posted By TMI "Not even allowed the experience sure sounds detrimental to me" Again, you miss the point. It's not an additional experience, or even an enhanced experience, it's the same experience. By your logic, park tickets should be more expensive when the park is opened later. Doesn't work that way, never has. It's the same experience, just different operating hours.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Just to throw a wrench into things, EMH does tend to impact day guests, as the park with EMH tends to be significantly more crowded during the day than it would be otherwise. During one trip, our time was better spent in MK during a non-EMH day than it was during the EMH time (let alone the hours leading up to EMH where there were also the regular guests). That said, the EMH time itself really has no impact on the non-resort guests. As has already been mentioned, it is the exact same experience that everybody gets to enjoy (actually less, when you account for shows/attractions that aren't open late), so the comparison really isn't apples to apples.
Originally Posted By HMButler79 NextGen will go down as well at DL as Light Magic did. I imagine once the horror show that FP+ is at WDW, TDA will get cold feet, especially if the APs and locals (and AL) start making drama once they see the stories from O-Town
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "It's not an additional experience, or even an enhanced experience, it's the same experience." It it's the very definition of additional experience. And what "enhanced" or "additional" about the Fastpaas+ stuff? Shorter waits in line? That's more "enhanced" than extra time in the park? Splitting hairs. Regardless, it's something offered to onsite that offsite guests can't have. This is the point. There's already "haves" & "have nots". We already have a tiered structure. Maybe the further tiering will cause problems. Maybe not. But I don't see the sky falling.
Originally Posted By HokieSkipper Now we have touch screens being put into the Haunted Mansion queue. It's all about story, everyone!
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< "According to this thread, everyone is now being told that $1.5 Billion has been spent... I'm appalled at this staggering cost." I'm not a shareholder. I don't particularly care. >>> Here's why I think that non-shareholders could be interested. That amount of money is a staggering capex investment by any measure. There's no way it got approved unless it was projected that there would be positive financial benefit to the company. Well, at least that's true for the original estimated cost of $1b. I remain skeptical about the ability of NGE to bring such dramatic increased earnings. Increased earnings come in a combination of three ways: increased number of guests, increased spend per guest, and cost reductions. It's been said that the company has remarkably little information on its guests. That is, once onsite, they know very little about which guests are spending on what and how much. There's partial data, such as those guests that charge everything back to their rooms, but it's far from complete. The thing is, I don't understand even in a theoretical sense how NGE is going to drive that much additional earnings to the point that it justifies itself. I can see some opportunities. For example, one thing that occurred to me when visiting New Fantasyland recently was that the attraction that features a meeting with Belle was terribly CM-intensive per guest, as compared to many other attractions. And, they're adding more meet-and-greets in FL, as well as on Main Street, all of which suffer from a similar issue. But when I saw the PhotoPass photographer in Belle's attraction, I got it: if you make the Meet-and-Greets much more prominent than they are now, such as by making some of them into bona fide attractions as has been done with Belle, and do things like automatically add ride photos to the PP account automatically without the guest even having to swipe their PP card to add it, and make PP previews appear automatically in the guest room when the TV is turned on, then you get to a point where getting the PP package becomes much more of a standard thing that people buy, instead of a specialty item that it is today. That is, the incremental revenue from PP sales can justify a lot of infrastructure. But I have to wonder how many other opportunities there are out there. Even if Disney gains total awareness of what each guest is spending and attempts to customize marketing to them, I wonder how much more incremental revenue there is that each guest is willing to part with. What are the other perceived revenue opportunities?
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<It it's the very definition of additional experience. And what "enhanced" or "additional" about the Fastpaas+ stuff? Shorter waits in line? That's more "enhanced" than extra time in the park? Splitting hairs.>> I didn't really appreciate standing in the standby line at Toy Story for three hours while the Fast Passers were allowed in unabated. Especially since I had to use the loo for part of that experience. I don't have a problem with the consept of Fast Pass. My gripe is how it is treated different by different Castmembers on seperate rides and attractions. For example, one time while riding Kali River Rapids, the castmember would allow 10-12 Fast Passers then would fill the remainder with quests in the standby line. We have already discussed the multitude of problems with Fast Pass. Including how castmembers notoriously allow guests with expired Fast Passers to get on rides/attractions as if they had a ligitimate Fast Pass. BAD SHOW!!! Also, I'm not sure if this was all apart of selective editing or not. But my point with the Next Gen price tag is that "other" Disney park experiences as well as maintenance are withering away due to lack of funding. To the point that line poles at Everest are falling on trainloads of quests, and there is no dragon at Fantasmic for weeks because the lift broke. Althought you may not be overly concerned about the decaying of the WDW parks in general, that doesn't mean the millions of other guests ( or shareholders ) approve of the Next Gen price tag.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I have been reading this thread with interest. I have several feelings about it. I personally don't care that Disney is spending that amount of money on Next Gen. Why? Because a)I am no longer a stock holder and b) Disney has lost me as a regular guest a while back. It really won't affect me at all in the long run. One has to ask the question...why spend that kind of money? The only answer I can come up with is that Disney believes that there will be return on the investment. That kind of investment would surely have to have an impact on the way the parks are experienced. Disney is not spending that kind of money so that Joe Smith can have the ease of getting a FP to Test Track six months before his visit. There must be a bigger payoff. I have spoken to several friends who work in mgmt at Disney about this at length. What is amazing to me is how little even people who are somewhat in the loop do not know about what Next Gen fully looks like. I spoke to someone recently who is involved with the company wide FP system integration who told me that Next Gen will not have an effect on the number of FP's that will be distributed to day guests. When I started asking some pointed questions about that, it became clear to both of us that it will have an effect on regular FP's and that no one is really sure what this new system will mean to the parks. Not even the park managers at the moment. I am not one to cry wolf about WDW. Many of the problems I see today have been in the making over the past 15 years or so. If in fact Next Gen does take over and change the way that a guest experiences Disney and sets up resort guests as a completely different tier of guest, then I believe that Next Gen will have an overall negative effect on the WDW experience. Most importantly I think Disney needs to be concerned that guests who stay off property, AP holders and day visitors (which is a large percentage of guests)feel that the experience they had for the price that they paid has a monetary value. What Disney doesn't need is for a majority of guests who are in the parks during the day to feel that their experience was not worth the price because people who can afford to stay in a Disney resort received preferential treatment. You can talk about Extra Magic Hours, that everyone has access to FP's if they get there early and all of the other stuff that has been talked about here forever, but Next Gen potentially has the ability to truly create an impression that could be detrimental to the overall experiences in the park. The one thing that I have learned as I get older is that no company is immune to its own stupidity. Had you told me 5 years ago that Blockbuster and Borders would be out of business I would have laughed. I feel that most businesses fail because of their arrogance. While I don't feel that we are looking at Disney failing, I do believe that there a bunch of baby steps that happen without anyone realizing it, that sets a company on the path to becoming a company on the downside of its life span rather than the upside of it. I was talking to a friend today about companies that have taken for granted their customers good will. When they try to change course it becomes very hard because of the past. Yes, Disney is too large to fail, but Disney isn't too large to be a company that can alienate enough people to have a dramatic effect on their bottom line.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt If Disney's theme parks fail because of NextGen it'll hardly be the end of the company.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I agree. But a much weaker company in many ways. It really isn't about failing per se but loss of customer loyalty. When you begin losing customers in larger numbers it is very hard to recover.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 I think the main issue with Next Gen, is that for the amount of money spent, nobody really seems to have a grasp of what it all means. It's different things to different people, and even within the company people are confused about it. That's not a good sign when you have a HUGE project like this that nobody can really identify quickly. Asking someone that works for Disney "What is Next Gen?" shouldn't send them scrambling for answers...especially as it is about to be rolled out at a major resort property.
Originally Posted By Manfried There are three things Disney's creative types should be focusing on, story, story and story. What's sad is how many, including a few Imagineers, seem to think they should focus on technology.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "But a much weaker company in many ways. It really isn't about failing per se but loss of customer loyalty. When you begin losing customers in larger numbers it is very hard to recover." With as many pies as Disney has its hand in - from ESPN to Lucasfilm - I hardly think that a few angry Disney Park customers are going to have a lasting affect on the company's bottom line. If NextGen is indeed a failure the company simply pulls it and pretends it never happened. Let's not make this into a bigger deal than it really is.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 I seem to remember a time when MGM was THE movie studio. And they are doing what now? Most companies don't see the problems until when they are too far in. I disagree with you completely about the potential is for a "few" angry guests. Just look the parking lots, which are filled mostly with day guests not staying on property. Disney has the potential to tick off the larger percentage of its daily on site guests. That is a problem. What happens if the number of FP's to the day guest population is reduced by 50% because of hotel guests pre-booking? What does a day guest say or do when they realize that a hotel guest is getting information and/pr perks thru a Smart phone and a bracelet that they have no access to? Will it happen overnight? Not at all, but over time guests could opt out of the Disney park experience. And if 5 or 10 years down the road when Next Gen has been a part of the parks for that long does anyone really think Disney will scrap it all? Again, take a look at some of the major companies that have either closed up shop completely or are having a tough time staying open at the moment. I heard a radio report about the troubles that Best Buy is currently having. Did the president of Borders or Blockbuster plan on running a company into the ground? No, but when they saw the writing on the wall it was too late. Remember when Netflix lost 800,000 member is one quarter due to one silly decision? Once again, I don't think Disney will fail, but I honestly believe that Disney is at its most vulnerable at the moment because of its size and the decisions it is making.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: I agree with you sjhym333, duckling. It's all too easy to make wrong assumptions and overlook important details when you think you're too big to fail.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt All I'm saying is that there isn't enough information available to come to the conclusions that you're suggesting Sjhym333. At this point there is no need for the customers will be pissed, therefore Disney may fail, thus the sky is falling hysteria. If NextGen (whatever the hell it is) flops they can simply end the service and Disney as we know it won't come to a grinding halt. Let's wait and see how the system is implemented, and I'll happily wail and gnash my teeth with you here if indeed NextGen screws things up.
Originally Posted By sjhym333 Not gnashing my teeth at all. Just an observation from working at Disney a long time and being a student of business.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Now WDW Co. has effectively bet the house on NGE. I'm worried that guests will balk at the notion of having to pay to premiumize (the new favorite term) their vacation experience. >>> ... and what worries me is how this will all be related to the existing term "monetize" - to the tune of $1.5b and counting. <<< NGE wants to know exactly what you are doing and when in order to "personalise" the experience. >>> How much of the anticipated extra revenue comes from increased return visits due to enhanced guest satisfaction due to to the personalization, and how much from increased spend on the current visit? I suspect it's mostly the latter, but those are mighty big expectations to fill. I think that a lot of guests go to WDW with a fixed budget in mind, and will be reluctant (if not unable) to spend substantially more just because there is an NGE opportunity offered to them. In aggregate, the uptake rate has to be substantial in order to make this all pay off. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and be able to see the numbers that estimate exactly where and how this increased guest spend is going to materialize.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< One of the biggest concerns I have is WDW Co.'s (and WDP&R's) track record with IT projects. P&R has been notoriously slow to adopt useful new technology - stuff like inventory management, RFID tags etc. - and when it does roll them out they don't tend to work properly or as intended. There is little doubt that WDW Co. has been way behind the curve in terms of leveraging its guest data but this is a lot of investment to get to that point. >>> Sometimes I see things that make me just shake my head. At DLR, the process of honoring the AP discounts is one such example: For many years, it involved the cashier pressing 3 or 4 different keys in an inconvenient order in order to register the discount. And, not customer-identifiable information was collected. Here you had a customer that was paying a lot of money for an annual membership card, and potentially a hugely varying amount of additional revenue, and was presenting their serialized card to you, yet they just keyed into the register that the cashier saw the card without recording the customer's identity. They were 99% of the way of being able to measure in detail AP guest merch and F&B spend, and possibly use that information for customized marketing offers, yet the data sat uncollected. Now, they scan the AP and thus are collecting the data, but they still have two unnecessary steps that slows down the line: the cashier must put the register in "Scan the AP" mode, and must now check guest ID - why can't it just recognize the barcode of an AP when scanned and apply the discount? <<< You have the entire project being run by a EVP who has never successfully executed a single project - not even the opening of an envelope. The guy got the gig solely because he was Jay's room mate at college (you couldn't make this stuff up). So instead of pulling the best and brightest from inside the company he decides to effectively hand over the entire reins of NGE to the consultants. >>> The integration of the various components and how it affects actual operations are key, and the larger the project, the more important they are. Here's another example: when the ticketing systems were consolidated between DLR and WDW, they took off the picture from the back of the DLR AP. I've never heard of the definitive reason for doing this, but if I had to guess, it was to free up real estate in order to put PhotoPass on each AP, with the key point that PP generates incremental revenue, whereas the guest picture does not. After all, the turnstiles display the guest picture, so there's no need to also have it on the card, right? Except that you now have to show Photo ID along with the AP every time you want the AP discount. Was this considered? Perhaps not. This wouldn't be necessary if the AP and PP barcodes were in compatible formats such that only one was needed, but they are not. They were designed independently, with no notion of eventual integration. And, even if the turnstiles and point-of-sale registers had scanners that were compatible with the PP barcode such that only that one could have been printed along with the picture, there's another system that uses the ticket barcode: FastPass. So, unless the FP machines also were compatible with the 2D barcode of PP, they'd have to be replaced as well. Please note that as a guest, I don't care about any of the above at all. I mention it here only to point out how difficult these multi-system integration projects are, and how small details can have a large impact on how they turn out in practice. It's very easy for someone at the top to just consider these details as things that can be worked out down the line, and especially when budget constraints get applied later on, it may not be possible to implement the imagined seamless integration with all of the pieces already in place. <<< One of the biggest concerns I have is WDW Co.'s (and WDP&R's) track record with IT projects. P&R has been notoriously slow to adopt useful new technology - stuff like inventory management, RFID tags etc. - and when it does roll them out they don't tend to work properly or as intended. >>> I'd say there also is a poor track record with implementing changes that affect guest behavior and correctly predicting what the change will be, and sometimes realizing that there will be any change at all. For example: - Change in the early 200x's where DLR experimented with closing Main Street shops at park closing time instead of one hour later, thinking that as long as they announced this during the day, total guest spend for the day would not go down and thus labor savings could be had. - Changing F! at DHS to be only two nights a week. They seemed shocked at the huge affect this had on daily attendance figures, with the park bursting at the seams on F! days, and relatively quiet on other days, and reportedly not being able to adjust staffing quickly to compensate. - Offering "free dining for everyone." Costs were estimated based on historical average spend by paid dining plan guests, not taking into account that by offering it to everyone, the percentage of people that ordered off the menu "from right to left" greatly increased. As a result, they had to make wholesale changes to the menus at many locations during free dining period, and the fact that this wasn't done at the very beginning tells me that this caught them by surprise. As has been said, in one sense, in the worst case if NGE doesn't work out, all they have to do is turn it off and go back to the way things were. But I think that with $1.5b invested so far and probably more before all is said and done, they will try awfully hard to make it work. As we have seen with other large-scale failures within P&R, it can take several years before it sets in that things are not working as planned and that radical rethinking is required, and also even a long time before it becomes possible within the company to point out that there is a problem at all. It will be very interesting to see how this all works out. I'm sure that NGE has the potential for some very fun things for guests to start happening. Let's hope that that aspect of going to the parks, having fun, isn't lost in the shuffle to personalize, plan, and monetize everything to the n'th degree.
