Originally Posted By leemac <<This should have been planned for three years ago as a way to reposition the company's second strongest themepark brand and it's only brand uniquely positioned to promote peace and hope for a better world.>> Very noble but not likely to attract guests. Epcot foundered precisely because it wasn't relevant to its modern audience. Personally I would still like to see some educational elements to the park but that isn't what guests seem to want from a trip to WDW these days. The future lies firmly with pavilions like The Seas with Nemo & Friends which can combine pure entertainment with an educational conclusion (ie. Seabase Alpha).
Originally Posted By mrichmondj These birthday celebrations were becoming old and tiresome. Every time you turned around, Disney was pulling out the candles and confetti to wrap a marketing campaign around a birthday. We just got done a nearly 2-year celebration of Disneyland's 50th Birthday. I, for one, am glad that we can try something different besides just trumpeting the latest park birthday. Back when these things only happened once ever 3 or 4 years when you considered it was just DL and WDW, it wasn't a big deal. Now, when you consider celebrating the birthdays of every park on earth its essentially a neverending cycle of birthdays that takes away from the significance of the event you were celebrating anyway.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "Give us some respite and look forward to DAK's biggie in '08." I don't know, I think I would prefer celebrating Epcot's 25th than DAK's 10th...that seems...less important to me.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 I kind of agree with Mrichmondj, but I think there is a comprimise. The problem isn't so much the birthdays. Especially at the international parks, which get no global coverage. Do you really think Disney is going to promote DLP's 15th birthday here in the US? Anyway, I think it's because Disney has been trying to create celebrations to fit where there are no milestone birthdays and that has made it a bit oversaturated. for example, since 1999 we've had the Millennium Celebration, 100 Years of Magic, Mickey's 75th Anniversary, The Happiest Celebration on Earth, and now Year of a Million Dreams. So, there's been something pretty much every year since then (expecailly since the promotions usually get stretched to 18 months). So, they screwed themselves out of celebrating Epcot's 25th because there is just too much "celebrating" going on. Why they couldn't have taken a year off after the 50th is beyond me, but they didn't. They just had to keep the 50th momentum going. Too bad they didn't try to create something bigger out of Epcot's birthday rather than the fluffy "Where Dreams Come True" campaign. Oh well...
Originally Posted By plpeters70 " The future lies firmly with pavilions like The Seas with Nemo & Friends which can combine pure entertainment with an educational conclusion (ie. Seabase Alpha)." I really hope this isn't the thinking of all the people in charge of Epcot, if so, then that's just sad. Clearly, no one has any real vision at Disney anymore if they can't see just how special EPCOT Center truly was, and could be again with a little inspiration. You know, as cute as that Nemo ride is, it truly doesn't fit in Future World at all - it belongs in the MK. I took my sister on it recently, and as cute as she thought the ride was, she still wanted to know what happened to all the cool educational stuff that they used to have. That was what made Epcot, EPCOT. And personally, I don't buy this excuse of "that's what the public wants these days." It's been my experience that the public rarely knows what they really want, and if Disney does it's job, then the public can be excited about anything - as long as the quality is there.
Originally Posted By leemac <<It's been my experience that the public rarely knows what they really want>> Well the only undisputed issue is that the public firmly didn't want Epcot throughout most of the '90s. Whether that is because they "didn't know that they wanted" seems a very circular and unproven argument to me. I don't have a crystal ball so I don't know whether updating the educational theming for all FW pavilions would have worked. All I know is that the Millennium Celebration was the real kickstart to the park and that was driving by pure entertainment with Tapestry of Nations and IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth. Ultimately WDW management contemplated closing The Living Seas entirely until Turtle Talk with Crush became a hit and then the The Seas with Nemo & Friends concept was pitched. Was that the right attitude? I don't know. I can understand it on a commercial basis if they perceive those pavilions (like Wonders of Life) just aren't worth operating. Maybe it is just a damning testamony on the state of our educational system in general that we can't stimulate people intellectually in their "free" time. As I said I would like to see a real mix.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>I kind of agree with Mrichmondj, but I think there is a comprimise. The problem isn't so much the birthdays. Especially at the international parks, which get no global coverage. Do you really think Disney is going to promote DLP's 15th birthday here in the US? Anyway, I think it's because Disney has been trying to create celebrations to fit where there are no milestone birthdays and that has made it a bit oversaturated.<< EXACTLY!!! Having an anniversary celebration every five years was fun and something many of us dedicated fans looked forward to since it only happened twice every decade... Now? marketing comes up with all these non-sense celebrations like Million Dreams and Family Gatherings etc etc that are only out for a quick buck from would be guests. Reason why.. as richmond explained above, they have lost their appeal and fun factor. As usual Disney killed the proverbial golden goose.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< And personally, I don't buy this excuse of "that's what the public wants these days." It's been my experience that the public rarely knows what they really want, and if Disney does it's job, then the public can be excited about anything - as long as the quality is there. >>> <<< "didn't know that they wanted" seems a very circular and unproven argument to me. >>> I took the original comment to mean that sometimes Disney needs to do something beyond what the public is asking for. That is, what the public will respond to isn't necessarily what they're asking for directly, or what's popular. The public often responds to entirely new things in unexpected ways. Obviously, the original Disneyland is a textbook example. If WDI sticks just with what the public is asking for on surveys or focus groups and looking at what's popular in society, they're missing out on a lot of potential.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 < Epcot still needs a lot of work and it is coming. I'm kinda glad that there isn't a big hollow celebration.< I so agree with this part. Dressing up the prize pig with a few ribbons and banners still leaves you with a pig. EPCOT deserves better and since the schedule did not allow for all the work that needs to be done before it's 25th - make it the 30th for sure - or for WDW's 40th or whatever, and do it up right hopefully with a replacement for WoL, maybe a new E-ticket or new country, and a shiny / full of exhibits Innovations, and a refurb SSE ( not a change) - with an updated ending....yeah that's the ticket !
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Maybe it is just a damning testamony on the state of our educational system in general that we can't stimulate people intellectually in their "free" time. < sadly there is probably a lot of truth in this statement -- I too would like to see more edu tainment in EPCOT, but I know I am in the minority of the general populace --
Originally Posted By TDLFAN I agree, but people do not go to EPCOT or WDW to learn anything.. reason why the Institute concept failed so miserably, and now is a DVC. So vbdad55..which do you really prefer...?? Institute or DVC accomodations I wonder???
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORWEN: Then I guess we won't be seeing any new parade for Epcot, either. Us Cauldron girls knew they were looking for ways to save money by NOT having a parade to celebrate the 25th anniversary. Too bad there are so many bad decisions being made by so many unqualified managers at Disney these days. ORGOCH: Yeah an' they seem ta be hirin' all the wrong kinds a goomers fer Imagineers, whilst gittin' rid a the one's that was a heck of a lot better! Now they got too many of 'em with Jay Rasulo type visions fer the future a theme parks. Might as well stay home 'n count spider webs on yer cottage ceilin'!
Originally Posted By Indigo If you treat Epcot like the ugly stepchild then that is how the public will view it too. Hence during the dead period of the early 90s, attendance was down. Not celebrating the 25th Anniversary of the park tells the public that it's not an important part of the Disney World property. The public will react accordingly.
Originally Posted By TDLFAN The public does not give a darn. Reason why theyget away with their inferiority. Only US know those things..
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I agree, but people do not go to EPCOT or WDW to learn anything.. reason why the Institute concept failed so miserably, and now is a DVC. So vbdad55..which do you really prefer...?? Institute or DVC accomodations I wonder???< stayed in the Institute when they were still the golf course villas - long before DVC - and liked them a lot at the time. I really enjoyed the institute and everyone in the family did at least 1 item each year -- I usually took the cooking classes as i like to cook..I miss it a lot. They could have kept the concept of the Institute going even with the advent of DVC - but they chose not to, and I wish they had. But DVC did not kill the Institute ( like video killed the radio star) - And DVC did not make people suddenly want wheee...go fast rides instead of edutainment in EPCOT -- but I am sorry that happened too
Originally Posted By leemac <<The public often responds to entirely new things in unexpected ways. Obviously, the original Disneyland is a textbook example. If WDI sticks just with what the public is asking for on surveys or focus groups and looking at what's popular in society, they're missing out on a lot of potential.>> Maybe but would you be prepared to put your neck on the line by going for something unproven? I sure as heck wouldn't. Why risk it? That said I would suggest that both Test Track and Mission:SPACE were unproven and "is this really going to work?" technologies that have proved successful (in varying degrees). Ultimately WDI doesn't listen or read the guest satisfaction surveys so their concepts are what they feel is best for the commercial and creative future of the park in question. The fact that your example is a 50+ year old theme park that created the concept and nothing more recent suggests to me that guests just can't be wowed in general any more.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I don't know if that is true Lee. Soarin' seems to wow people both sides of the US. The Nemo and Aladdin stage shows too.
Originally Posted By leemac ^^ I probably should have said the fan community rather than guests in general. The expectation is so much more.
