Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Ok, I'll concede that one. After all, fans find out about something typically 2 years to 9 months before it opens, over think it, blow it up to be the best thing ever, and then are disappointed when it is not.
Originally Posted By LindsayC Has Epcot ever really celebrated one of its birthdays? Did anything happen during the 5th or 10th years (I know they released some merchandise for the 10th). I was around during the 15th and 20th where there was nothing. What about MGM? Did the park even celebrate its first bithday? I was there in 94 which would have been it’s fifth and I don’t remember much (though TOT opening that year was a good enough event!). The 10th anniversary didn’t get a nod either did it? I think had the Resort celebrated the 30th or 35th birthdays as a whole the focus on Epcot at 25 may not come to the fore as much - maybe the marketing campaigns will have run dry before the resort’s 40th in 2011. I’m interested to see how the Paris 15th goes - as the 10th was very minimal due to the opening of the Studios (they even took the “10th†scroll down the day after the birthday) - and I’m sure the 5th birthday of the Studios won’t even register.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <So, what will you be cooking for us tonight?< tonight is a citrus tilapia, a savoy cabbage side dish , and a pinenut couscous -- we're eating light ( also a chopped salad )
Originally Posted By Labuda Re post #43 - So then why are we suddenly going to expect a big celebration for DAK's 10th?
Originally Posted By TDLFAN >>Has Epcot ever really celebrated one of its birthdays?<< Hi Lindsay..you hunky boy you That's a very good question.. and the answer is NO. They only hung up a few banners when EPCOT turned 10 back in 92 and I believe it was done after the 20th anniversary overlay had been taken down, but EPCOT's (or MGMs or DAKs) anniversary was never acknowledge separately. The entire resort has always recognized the WDW opening anniversary of OCt 1st and they should stick or at least, return to doing that with the 40th.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Ultimately WDI doesn't listen or read the guest satisfaction surveys so their concepts are what they feel is best for the commercial and creative future of the park in question.>> In other words, the Imagineering execs who play the political game the best get to force-feed the public on what THEIR view/vision for Disney parks are ... even if all the projects do is cost money and push individual agendas. It's truly remarkable to me that so many who work in Glendale and Burbank are so creatively bereft they truly don't understand why people really visit Disney parks. Why attractions like PoC, Mansion, Small World and Peter Pan are as popular as they ever have been, decades later, while so many new attractions are mild successes at best and outright failures at worst. <<The fact that your example is a 50+ year old theme park that created the concept and nothing more recent suggests to me that guests just can't be wowed in general any more.>> I always like to point out that if that 52-year-old theme park hadn't have been built, so many people wouldn't be making money off of it today! But I'm wowed by DAK, and was blown away by EPCOT Center of the 1980s, so what do I know?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<I think had the Resort celebrated the 30th or 35th birthdays as a whole the focus on Epcot at 25 may not come to the fore as much - maybe the marketing campaigns will have run dry before the resort’s 40th in 2011.>> I dunno about that. Epcot's 25th is very significant because of the nature of the park and the number of years. But as long as JR is leading parks and resorts, he'll keep shoving his globalization agenda (funny how his globe doesn't go past the USA borders!)down the throats of Disney consumers ... oops, I mean guests. And that agenda calls for these marketing campaigns that fold both DL and WDW together and are much more style than substance. But I'll go out on a small limb and guarantee you right here and now that JR won't be head of P&R come WDW's 40th.
Originally Posted By leemac <<so many new attractions are mild successes at best and outright failures at worst.>> And many are out-of-the-ballpark successes like Everest, Nemo, Soarin', Turtle Talk, the new TDS Tower etc. But that wouldn't fit into your theory about WDI would it?
Originally Posted By pheneix That doesn't quite let them off the hook for atrocities like Stitch, both incarnations of Imagination, the new Tiki Room, the stupid hat, the even dumber wand, Paradise Pier, and as of now the soon to open Monsters Inc. And thats just the cream of the crap. Everything else just fades into mediocricy never be heard from or cared about by anyone ever again. There's still a lot of problems at WDI. The recent Harry Potter fiasco just goes to show that while progress is being made in the right direction, there still needs to be a lot more momentum behind them.
Originally Posted By MPierce I am strongly considering taking WDW off of my must do vacation list. It has nothing to do with a 25th year celebration of Epcot. Personally I don't think we need annual celebrations of parks or attractions that last more than a very brief time . I see nothing wrong with a promotion like Year of a Million Dreams. Every business changes its' advertisement, and promotional themes. You either change or people grow weary of hearing, and doing the same exact thing year after year. I want bang for my bucks everytime I go to WDW, not just hoping things will be cleaner or better because an anniversary is taking place.
Originally Posted By danyoung >...people do not go to EPCOT or WDW to learn anything.. reason why the Institute concept failed so miserably, and now is a DVC.< I've always wondered about this, TDLFAN. I know the Institute was a failure, but I think is was more because it required such a large investment of time to take part in the programs. You had to dedicate basically half a day for each of the classes, which is just too much out of the average vacation. But in much smaller doses, I still think edutainment works well in the parks, especially Epcot. There's still value in the films in Universe of Energy, in the flow of the story in Spaceship Earth, in the beautiful films of Canada, Norway and China. Done right, Disney CAN educate while keeping people entertained. And that above all else is what Epcot the park was supposed to be about.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<so many new attractions are mild successes at best and outright failures at worst.>> <<And many are out-of-the-ballpark successes like Everest, Nemo, Soarin', Turtle Talk, the new TDS Tower etc. But that wouldn't fit into your theory about WDI would it?>> WDI has a very poor hit to strikeout ratio in the past decade, especially when spending Disney's money. For every hit, I can name two failures. That's just not good enough. Financially or creatively.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost ^^^Name them! And then remember that your opinion is not necessarily that of the rest of the planet. You know a lot of space has been taken up on this board calling others pollyanna's which is the extreme of supporting everything that Disney does. Well there is another end to that and that is those that cannot find anything good about anything and really are basing it only on their own opinion. One is no more valid then the other.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Well, failures in the last decade... "New" Tomorrowland 1998 at Disneyland. (this includes Rocket Rods and Innoventions) The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh - Disneyland Superstar Limo - DCA (I will not name the entire park since some areas are hits) Stitch's Great Escape - MK Journey Into Your Imaginatino with Figment - EPCOT (I count both re-do's here) Pooh's Playful Spot - MK Goofy's Playground - DL Mission Space - EPCOT (I'm not discounting the quality, but the misjudgement of what would be required of guests) Laugh Floor Comedy Club - MK (maybe it's too early for this, but from all reports it's not looking promising) That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Sadly I am with Spirit on this one: Successes in the last 5 years: Everest Nemo Stage Show Buzz Attractions ToT TDS Space Mountain redo in DL Soarin' going into Epcot Mythica Turtle Talk Philharmagic (though I personally think it overrated) Aladdin Stage Show Lion King Stage Shows at DLP and HKDL Remember at DL Verdict still out/borderline: Monster's Inc. ToT DCA Lights, Motors, Action (I love it, but noticed general audience do not share opinion). Nemo at the Living Seas BraveSEAmo Space Mountain Mission 2 at DLP And very poor/problematic: Winnie the Pooh DL Bugs Land Snow White Musical Stitch Encounter (though I like it!) Laugh Floor? Pooh playground Mission Space (killer attraction - no line for an expensive investment) Imagination refurb (though 0.3>0.2) Dinorama Raging Spirits HKDL on many levels, but has potential due to quality and plans in the pipeline. But as we can see, it's not like the 80's when it was all great.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 Some of those things are not WDI's doing though, like the stage shows and fireworks. I did forget Dinorama...and Paradise Pier for that matter.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Name them! And then remember that your opinion is not necessarily that of the rest of the planet. You know a lot of space has been taken up on this board calling others pollyanna's which is the extreme of supporting everything that Disney does. Well there is another end to that and that is those that cannot find anything good about anything and really are basing it only on their own opinion. One is no more valid then the other.>> Others above have beaten me to it and since I agree with 98% of their comments, I feel no need to repeat it. But I will say something about the whole concept of what is an opinion and what is a fact in a discussion on the relative merits of Disney theme park attractions. While me thinking Test Track sucks is clearly an opinion, the fact that TT is a popular success (just look at the lines ... well, the ones not caused by chronic breakdowns) and has financially helped drive (pun intended) Epcot attendance means it is a success no matter what I think. But take something like Stitch's Great Escape. It hasn't succeeded in driving attendance at all, it hasn't spiked the sales of Stitch merchandise by the degrees WDW management hoped/planned, and most people dislike it on a creative level. To me, and from everything I hear from Glendale, Burbank and Orlando, it is widely considered to be 'a huge flop' (BTW, that is the direct quote of a very high level exec). There are other attractions that tougher to gauge ... that aren't huge hits like Soarin and Everest ... nor huge flops like Stitch, Imagination and now Monsters Laugh Floor. Stuff like Mission Space and the LMA stunt show come to mind. And, to be fair, I love the first and am bored to death by the latter. One was supposed to be an E-Ticket attraction, one an E-Ticket show. By Disney's metrics, they are both failures. They were both designed to be huge crowd-drivers for their respective parks. Neither has done so. MS ... everyone here knows it's history ... but the bottom line is for a couple of hundred million ... with half of its ride mechanism shut down to tame it ... with all that, it struggles to get people in the door. Soarin sure doesn't ... heck, the new C-Ticket Nemo doesn't. But MS does. LMA? It was supposed to be the big thing at Disney-MGM Studios for the 4-5 years, but draws a lot more yawns then thrills. They have cut performances by 1-2 a day depending on park hours. Still, except during the busiest times, you can show up at showtime and get a seat. Instead of driving attendance (and merchandise sales), LMA has struggled. Meanwhile, DAK (with two quality additions in Everest and Nemo) are driving attendance higher. DAK should surpass MGM for the first time ever in attendance either this year or next. So, ultimately, MS and LMA are failures. Whether you -- or I -- like them, hate them or are in between is immaterial. It only matters what the Mouse and the general public think.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORGOCH: Right on, Spirit a '74, ducklin'! Yer Cauldron gals is right behind ya, as us'sal! Good ta see ya ain't fooled by none a the clap trap some folks would have ya believe. We ain't fooled, either. Just goes ta show old Walt was a lot smarter about what makes a good attraction, compared ta some a these younger upstarts who don't know nothin' bout good quality fer a theme park.
