Originally Posted By D62 New poster here. Thought I might add some insight to the tour guide issue. I've used both WDW's VIP tour guides and Mike's. Disney's VIP's are a mixed bag, some excellent, some not so much. Either way, there are two levels of service, one expensive and one very expensive. Either grants you virtually immediate access to any ride in any park. Private transport is available for an extra fee. All entrances are from backstage and many ride entrances are through back doors. Sometimes you get a guide with lots of inside and historical knowledge, and sometimes you don't. Disney guides eat with you, and they eat for free. Mike's is a little different. They are much less expensive than Disney. The guides I've had are former imagineers or the like and are very knowledgeable. They seem to have unlimited fast passes and know the ins and outs of what to do and when to do it. They are very low profile and may as well be a family member as you go through the parks with them. They eat with you, but you pay for their food. The ones we've used are also excellent photographers and don't hesitate to use your camera to take photos of you and your family on the rides, a nice perk. While I certainly don't use a guide on every trip, I do use one for a day or two on the short 2-3 day trips where I want to try and fill the days.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 First, welcome to LP, D62. And thanks for the insight. I believe Mike's base rate for a family/group of six is over $700, not including gratuities, which of course CMs are not allowed to accept. I don't know how this compares to Disney, but clearly they can't provide the same level of access unless they're breaking all sorts of rules and policies. Even having an 'unlimited supply' of Fastpasses would give me great pause. How exactly do they get them? Are they doing things that really aren't kosher to do so? And I can't really comment on how covert Mike's operation is run, but it's pretty obvious from watching Lou's podcast and seeing his website that he is quite out and loud and proud. It's almost like WDW is his personal playground. I wonder how many people are doing this. Of course, I also wonder why anyone would need to repeatedly take a tour of a place they've been unless they're getting something that a regular park guest isn't (and I'm not talking about a 36-minute spiel in front of the CoP about its history) ... and if people are getting special perks, again it sounds like it goes against Disney's policies that all guests are treated equally and get the same VIP treatment UNLESS they pay Disney big bucks for some MAGICal perks that come with plaid.
Originally Posted By D62 Thanks for the welcome. I've read this site for years but haven't had much to add. While I've met many cast members and consider them to be friends, the rumors they provide generally don't pan out. In addition to ride access, VIP guides get you VIP seating for parades and shows. They can also get you last minute reservations at restaurants. The better ones are a wealth of knowledge on all things Disney, and some of their rumors have panned out. Cost is double that or more than Mike's. Not sure how Mike's get their fast passes, perhaps multiple annual passes? At the end of the day we were given the ones that weren't used. We passed them out to people that looked like they could use them. I don't always use a guide, but when you're trying to see all the attractions and still have time to enjoy the ambience of the parks in a short time it helps to have an expert along. I actually prefer the Disney guides, but simply couldn't afford them. Their prices jumped quite a bit in just a few years.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I believe Mike's base rate for a family/group of six is over $700, not including gratuities, which of course CMs are not allowed to accept. I don't know how this compares to Disney, but clearly they can't provide the same level of access unless they're breaking all sorts of rules and policies. Even having an 'unlimited supply' of Fastpasses would give me great pause. How exactly do they get them? Are they doing things that really aren't kosher to do so? << To get unlimited FP's you would definitely have to have an inside source. >> And I can't really comment on how covert Mike's operation is run, but it's pretty obvious from watching Lou's podcast and seeing his website that he is quite out and loud and proud. It's almost like WDW is his personal playground. << That would seem to indicate no fear of being busted. >> I wonder how many people are doing this. << If you mean profiting off their knowledge of Disney the answer would be a bunch. Giving tours not so many I would guess.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Thanks for the welcome. I've read this site for years but haven't had much to add.>> I am sure you could add plenty. It's always nice to have new blood here. Only so many times we can talk about refillable mugs or why DVC has destroyed WDW! <<While I've met many cast members and consider them to be friends, the rumors they provide generally don't pan out.>> It all depends on who you know. Being a CM doesn't automatically make someone know much about the company or what it's doing beyond his/her immediate work area. <<In addition to ride access, VIP guides get you VIP seating for parades and shows. They can also get you last minute reservations at restaurants. The better ones are a wealth of knowledge on all things Disney, and some of their rumors have panned out. Cost is double that or more than Mike's.>> But they are official. They are operating through Disney sanctioned channels. That IS why they can offer those perks. No one else should be able to be unless they are flouting the rules or are being allowed to operate by friends at TDO ... I strongly 'suspect' it's the latter. <<Not sure how Mike's get their fast passes, perhaps multiple annual passes? At the end of the day we were given the ones that weren't used. We passed them out to people that looked like they could use them. >> It sounds very fishy to me. The FP deal, not you giving your extras away. <<I don't always use a guide, but when you're trying to see all the attractions and still have time to enjoy the ambience of the parks in a short time it helps to have an expert along. I actually prefer the Disney guides, but simply couldn't afford them. Their prices jumped quite a bit in just a few years.>> I dunno ... everyone is different ... but my take is if you've been to WDW numerous tims than you're probably close to an expert yourself on basics like making dining arrangements or getting FP's to certain attractions.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<To get unlimited FP's you would definitely have to have an inside source.>> It kinda implies being given something that one shouldn't be getting ... FP's are largely, at least right now, something that is open to everyone based on certain factors like arrival time, only holding one at a certain time etc. >> And I can't really comment on how covert Mike's operation is run, but it's pretty obvious from watching Lou's podcast and seeing his website that he is quite out and loud and proud. It's almost like WDW is his personal playground. << <<That would seem to indicate no fear of being busted.>> I doubt he had fear at all ... whether that is still the case isn't clear. I do wonder if he was able to just grab The Weatherman and put him 'live' on WDW Radio (must be official with a name like that) this morning ... I somehow doubt it. >> I wonder how many people are doing this. << <<If you mean profiting off their knowledge of Disney the answer would be a bunch.>> The sad thing is most of their 'knowledge' isn't really ... it's more like information/facts that can be found in 1,001 places online. <<Giving tours not so many I would guess.>> I dunno ... I keep hearing they are more prevalent than one would think (again, I can't get the idea as to why people would pay for them).
Originally Posted By MPierce >> It kinda implies being given something that one shouldn't be getting ... FP's are largely, at least right now, something that is open to everyone based on certain factors like arrival time, only holding one at a certain time etc. << You could easily take your group to the FP machine, but passing them out in bunches to me indicates that you have a source. I know there use to be ways of getting multiple FP for rides, something on the back, but I think they fixed the flaw in the machines. >> I doubt he had fear at all ... whether that is still the case isn't clear. << Both Mike, and Lou are well known in the Disney fan community, and have been for a long time. If Disney has moniters for Disney sites, and we know they do. They are not doing a very good job or all of these people have been given a pass at a very high level from TDO, it would seem. >> The sad thing is most of their 'knowledge' isn't really ... it's more like information/facts that can be found in 1,001 places online. << That would require a lot of reading, and a lot of research. Plus reading all 43,529 post that EPCOT Explorer has made. Paying for a tour guide is a whole lot easier. <<Giving tours not so many I would guess.>> >> I dunno ... I keep hearing they are more prevalent than one would think (again, I can't get the idea as to why people would pay for them). << Maybe, but how does one go about offering their services to the general public. I think D62 explained why he used them. people are always looking to take a tour in the hopes of learning more or getting a different perspective or just getting the perks that come with a tour. I can't understand why anyone would pay a considerable amount of money to dine with a WDI either, but some folks do.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< >> The sad thing is most of their 'knowledge' isn't really ... it's more like information/facts that can be found in 1,001 places online. << That would require a lot of reading, and a lot of research. Plus reading all 43,529 post that EPCOT Explorer has made. Paying for a tour guide is a whole lot easier. >>> For once, I agree with the old man. It's really no different than hiring a tour guide in a city that you've never been to before, or taking a guided tour of a museum or other historical place of interest. These days, there's probably not much on any subject that you couldn't find yourself, much of it easily accessible on the Internet but for one problem: there are only so many hours in a day. Just like a docent at a museum whose subject matter was a hobby of sorts for years and can provide what appears to be a limitless fount of information to the casual visitor, I can see how a WDW tour guide (official or not) can be very useful to a visitor that doesn't consider WDW or Disney in general to be a hobby.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >> It kinda implies being given something that one shouldn't be getting ... FP's are largely, at least right now, something that is open to everyone based on certain factors like arrival time, only holding one at a certain time etc. << <<You could easily take your group to the FP machine, but passing them out in bunches to me indicates that you have a source.>> It sounds to me like these guys/gals walk into the park either already possessing said FPs or have a supplier when they arrive. That again would indicate a gaming the system deal. <<I know there use to be ways of getting multiple FP for rides, something on the back, but I think they fixed the flaw in the machines.>> Yes, that was in the very early days of it ... you could basically push a button on the back and it would spit them out ... you could also put anything with a bar code (from a credit card to an expired day pass from UNI) and get a FP too. >> I doubt he had fear at all ... whether that is still the case isn't clear. << <<Both Mike, and Lou are well known in the Disney fan community, and have been for a long time. If Disney has moniters for Disney sites, and we know they do. They are not doing a very good job or all of these people have been given a pass at a very high level from TDO, it would seem.>> Everything I'm hearing/seeing would lead me to believe it is most likely the latter. Still trying to figure out exactly what is in it for Disney. I mean, if Disney is taping in the park and my image may be captured or used they put a sign out warning/telling me this in advance. But what if some crazy podcaster with entourage decides to invade my privacy and put me on the 'net just because he's doing a tour of Main Street trashcans and I'm standing by one? I know that's a small example, but it seems to me there are many legal aspects of this that haven't been vetted by anyone much beyond WDW Social Media. >> The sad thing is most of their 'knowledge' isn't really ... it's more like information/facts that can be found in 1,001 places online. << <<That would require a lot of reading, and a lot of research. Plus reading all 43,529 post that EPCOT Explorer has made. Paying for a tour guide is a whole lot easier.>> I think you are missing a few 0s there. <<Giving tours not so many I would guess.>> >> I dunno ... I keep hearing they are more prevalent than one would think (again, I can't get the idea as to why people would pay for them). << <<Maybe, but how does one go about offering their services to the general public.>> Through the 6,785 Disney fan sites that have sprouted like weeds (most that aren't nearly as 'legit' as this one). Most of these tourguides either have sites of their own or are linked via others' sites. <<I think D62 explained why he used them. people are always looking to take a tour in the hopes of learning more or getting a different perspective or just getting the perks that come with a tour.>> I get that with an official tour. I'd honestly be afraid to buy one of the unofficial ones, even if I were interested in taking one, because if Disney Legal decides to crack down on the guides, they could also crack down on the guests who bought them. <<I can't understand why anyone would pay a considerable amount of money to dine with a WDI either, but some folks do.>> I don't really get that at all ... although I have ... but I have off-property on a one-on-one or small group of friends basis. I have no desire to pay an absurd amount to Disney to have a low level Imagineer come out to the Brown Derby and go over talking points and leave me with a LE pin.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> For once, I agree with the old man. << Your IQ just increased by 20 points.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I mean, if Disney is taping in the park and my image may be captured or used they put a sign out warning/telling me this in advance. But what if some crazy podcaster with entourage decides to invade my privacy and put me on the 'net just because he's doing a tour of Main Street trashcans and I'm standing by one? I know that's a small example, but it seems to me there are many legal aspects of this that haven't been vetted by anyone much beyond WDW Social Media. << I'n sure Disney is smart enough to set up a route for plausible deniability. >> I think you are missing a few 0s there. << Probably I haven't checked his post count lately. <<Maybe, but how does one go about offering their services to the general public.>> >> Through the 6,785 Disney fan sites that have sprouted like weeds (most that aren't nearly as 'legit' as this one). Most of these tourguides either have sites of their own or are linked via others' sites. << That's probably true. With my extremely heavy social calendar I don't have time to skim all the Disney sites now. >> I get that with an official tour. I'd honestly be afraid to buy one of the unofficial ones, even if I were interested in taking one, because if Disney Legal decides to crack down on the guides, they could also crack down on the guests who bought them. << I don't see how they could prove the guest had knowledge of this being an illegal activity. >> I have no desire to pay an absurd amount to Disney to have a low level Imagineer come out to the Brown Derby and go over talking points and leave me with a LE pin. << I really wonder how much they have made off of that activity since it's conception?
Originally Posted By Christi22222 >>Just like a docent at a museum...<< Ha, this grabbed me since I've been a docent at a few zoos. It would be hilarious to have Disney Docents!! Sign me up. The training would be awesome.
Originally Posted By D62 If you're looking for information, forget the lunch/dinner with an imagineer. I've done it twice, hoping the the first time wasn't as bad as it seemed. Many of the attendees seem to simply want to bask in the aura of an imagineer. The meal is good, but knowledge wise it's a complete waste of time. BTW, they give you a plate, not a pin.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I have been a fascinated lurker on this and that other related topic. Either everyone here lives in an alternate universe, or WDW is mighty, mighty different from the DLR! (And by that, I mean to say that the MK really isn't Walt Disney's original magic kingdom...!) I cannot offer any insight into the myriad personalities that apparently infest the Orlando Resort. But I can offer an insight into the FastPass system, at least as it operates in the Disneyland Resort. There are a couple of completely legitimate ways to get what would appear to be "unlimited" FastPasses. The first is the simple matter of picking up ones that have been discarded. There are a few places where the pickings are pretty good, but generally this is hit or miss. A canny entrepreneur would never rely on something like this. It's a fun past time with kids, though. With a group, it's all a matter of logistics, and an understanding of the system. I fairly infrequently offer to get FastPasses for a group-- always family or friends. It's just a matter of staying ahead of the group, taking all the valid ticket media at once, and knowing when the various attractions will use up their allotment of FPs in a given day. This is where the "pros" have a leg up on us mere mortals. I'm good, but I still can't tell when the Indy passes will go past 9pm, or if the FP machine for Autopia is "off the system" on weekdays. The issue of "valid ticket media" is another issue entirely. If one finds a lost or discarded gate ticket, it can be used for the rest of that day to get FastPasses. I know this is true, but... I always turn in any valid ticket media I find to the nearest cast member, on the off chance that the guest who lost it is looking for it. Obviously, one could buy multiple day passes, or hold multiple APs, and use them to get multiple FPs. But... this is rather expensive (although the multiple APs would amortize at a certain point-- but where's the magic in that?), and it is technically against the rules. Or it's fraud. Or somethin'. You see, valid ticket media must be activated as the guest enters the gate. If one wants to use multiple tickets to get FPs, they would have to enter the gates repeatedly, in essence creating their own "mules" for the express purpose of gaming the FP system. Legal? I don't know. Right? Nah. There is a really, really unsavory way to get OODLES of FPs. Every day. For any attraction. You see, the cast member who collects the passes at the head of the line is supposed to drop them in a collection box. But who's to say they don't slip a stack into their pocket now and then? And, with the proper motivation, pass that stack on to some deserving individual or party? Not saying it's been done... but I've seen it. Really. So... food for thought.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>That would require a lot of reading, and a lot of research. Plus reading all 43,529 post that EPCOT Explorer has made. Paying for a tour guide is a whole lot easier.<<< Every one of them, a gem...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<For once, I agree with the old man. It's really no different than hiring a tour guide in a city that you've never been to before, or taking a guided tour of a museum or other historical place of interest. These days, there's probably not much on any subject that you couldn't find yourself, much of it easily accessible on the Internet but for one problem: there are only so many hours in a day. Just like a docent at a museum whose subject matter was a hobby of sorts for years and can provide what appears to be a limitless fount of information to the casual visitor, I can see how a WDW tour guide (official or not) can be very useful to a visitor that doesn't consider WDW or Disney in general to be a hobby.>> I think something is being lost in the whole subject ... VIP Tours began at Disney for one reason: to allow celebrities and heads of state and their families to visit DL and WDW without being a distraction to other guests and so they could enjoy the parks without being constantly distracted by other guests. They weren't even charged for them. But something changed in the ME-ME-ME 90s and people started seeing a celeb walking thru a park with a vest and whined 'I have more money than they do. Why can't I have a VIP experience? Why can't I walk around and have others gawk at me? What about me?!?!' That's why Disney started offering VIP experiences to anyone who could plunk down an AmEx Black (well, would have been Platinum in those days). And they also expanded basic tours to offer pricier and longer and 'look I'm going backstage so I must be special' experiences. And largely, things haven't changed much except you have these online whores joining in and setting up competing tours.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 >>I know that's a small example, but it seems to me there are many legal aspects of this that haven't been vetted by anyone much beyond WDW Social Media. << <<I'n sure Disney is smart enough to set up a route for plausible deniability.>> I don't believe the average IQ at TDO gets up to the typical summer temp in the area ... so I think they are leaving themselves open to all sorts of things. >> I think you are missing a few 0s there. << <<Probably I haven't checked his post count lately.>> If he hasn't been biking, then you may have to add another 0! <<Maybe, but how does one go about offering their services to the general public.>> >> Through the 6,785 Disney fan sites that have sprouted like weeds (most that aren't nearly as 'legit' as this one). Most of these tourguides either have sites of their own or are linked via others' sites. << <<That's probably true. With my extremely heavy social calendar I don't have time to skim all the Disney sites now.>> I can't believe how many there are now. And a common thread seems to be the people want to be part of the phenomenon they see growing ... they want invites, they want free trips, they want swag, they want to be able to drool on Tony Baxter. >> I get that with an official tour. I'd honestly be afraid to buy one of the unofficial ones, even if I were interested in taking one, because if Disney Legal decides to crack down on the guides, they could also crack down on the guests who bought them. << <<I don't see how they could prove the guest had knowledge of this being an illegal activity.>> It seems like a common sense thing to me. The first questions I'd ask before booking one is 'are you sanctioned by Disney and do you have something in writing saying as much?' How can it not go through people's heads that something is off? Maybe I should bring in a cooler (they do let you now) of Cokes and start selling them for $1.50 a can? >> I have no desire to pay an absurd amount to Disney to have a low level Imagineer come out to the Brown Derby and go over talking points and leave me with a LE pin. << <<I really wonder how much they have made off of that activity since it's conception?>> Enough to keep it going, I'd guess.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> I can't believe how many there are now. And a common thread seems to be the people want to be part of the phenomenon they see growing ... they want invites, they want free trips, they want swag, they want to be able to drool on Tony Baxter << Of coarse they do, that's why they're called fans. >> It seems like a common sense thing to me. The first questions I'd ask before booking one is 'are you sanctioned by Disney and do you have something in writing saying as much?' How can it not go through people's heads that something is off? << I can't even believe this is Spirit posting. The answer is, for the same reason they have to post 100 different safety warnings on a step ladder. >> Maybe I should bring in a cooler (they do let you now) of Cokes and start selling them for $1.50 a can? << I get $3.00 for a can of beer. For a 20% cut on what you sell I'll tell you how to get the Cokes past security.
Originally Posted By EPCOT Explorer >>>If he hasn't been biking, then you may have to add another 0!<<< That I have been! Just wrapped up a nice 13 miles.
