Originally Posted By Dabob2 Well, you said "I can't believe that anyone is trying to defend Walt Disney's Tomorrowland" So I was going on that.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>ask anyone who was around at that time (me, 2oony, JiminMerced, et al).<< First time I'm happy to *not* be included in such a fine group of people
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Well, you said "I can't believe that anyone is trying to defend Walt Disney's Tomorrowland" So I was going on that." Maybe you missed the part in post 111 where I referred to his 1955 proclamation that TL would be living blueprint of our future, so I was speaking of Tomorrowland as a concept, not TL '67 in particular, although even it didn't meet the expectation that was set by Walt Disney. It came pretty darn close though.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yeah, and it's fair to call it "Walt Disney's TL," since he was heavily involved in it. So I'll defend that.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 >>>With the exception of replacing Carousel of Progress with America Sings, changing Flight to The Moon to Mission to Mars, and the Space Mountain mini expansion in 1977, Disney never gave it a proper refreshing until 1998.<<< I'm not sure how successful the 1998 Tomorrowland skin was, especially since some of it has been removed! The Tomorrowland paradigm hasn't changed much since Disneyland opened, basically the land is like a mall with generic futuristic theming, tenants come and go, like Circle Vision, and the theming remains vaguely futuristic, or at least more obviously technologic/mechanical than other areas of the park. Innoventions has gotten a new lease on life as a popular destination for meet and greets. So, I think that is why WDI is interested in doing something similar to JLM/Ariel's Grottos in Orlando where you've got a combined attraction and a related meet and greet in the same area. There've been ideas for a 1st floor meet and greet and queue, with a second story being used for the attraction, as well as space above Tomorrowland. Instead of looping out over the Autopia, they might drastically alter the Tomorrowland Terrace and build a second large show-room over the outside eating area which would connect to Innovention's footprint and the old PM load/unload area. Apparently at some point the Hulk might visit the world of the Guardians of the Galaxy (probably depending on how successful the upcoming film is), and WDI likes the idea of a gigantic Hulk animatronic for a finale for a new ride in TL. I'm thinking Avengers based, though there are a lot of ways the story could be told.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Hans, your old age is making you seem obstinate." Huh? All I'm saying is that Disney hasn't always been perfect. If we can't all agree on that simple point then I'm not sure if I'm the one who is being obstinate here. As bad as some of the new details are in NOS they aren't even close to some of the truly awful things Imagineering has produced in the past, even in Walt's day. The original Tomorrowland is one of the most obvious examples. "Innoventions has gotten a new lease on life as a popular destination for meet and greets." Because nothing supports Walt's Tomorrowland narrative better than a comic book character meet & greet, right?
Originally Posted By monorailblue <<Similarly, the old Sub voyage was entertainment first and foremost, it sure wasn't educational as it had Atlantis and mermaids, it was Jules Verne style entertainment.>> Disneyland's Submarine Voyage has never had a Jules Verne style of any kind.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>There've been ideas for a 1st floor meet and greet and queue, with a second story being used for the attraction, as well as space above Tomorrowland.<< In this scheme, would they keep the Carousel Theater building, or create something new? It doesn't seem like there's a whole ton of space for an attraction's load/unload and show space on the upper level, and it would be tough to configure a queue and meet & greet with the rotating outer ring. It would be a shame to lose the unique building, but I'd rather them completely remove it than attempt to shoehorn something else into it
Originally Posted By smd4 >>>Disneyland's Submarine Voyage has never had a Jules Verne style of any kind.<<< I think he means the style of the "story," which indeed had several elements lifted straight from the Verne classic, "20,000 Leagues Under the Seas."
Originally Posted By phruby If they are going to build a Guardians of the Galaxy ride, I want to see Howard the Duck somewhere in it. Maybe he should be a passenger at Star Tours?
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA LOL phruby -- I think 'Howard the Duck' is one of the worst movies I've ever seen. Not just comic book genre, but ever!
Originally Posted By monorailblue "Elements" is a bit vague. I suppose we could say that it shares elements with Down Periscope as well.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 >>>In this scheme, would they keep the Carousel Theater building, or create something new? It doesn't seem like there's a whole ton of space for an attraction's load/unload and show space on the upper level,<<< The Carousel building outside of the rotating part is mostly just a shell, as of course was needed for the rotation of the guests through the various scenes. The building is easily two stories, so there is enough room for a queue/meet and greet on the bottom, though of course they'd gut the ramps and re-do the exterior, but no need to remove the structural steel and concrete on the exterior. As I've been told, the construction of Carousel building is actually an advantage as the perimeter supports make it much easier to build track inside the building as you don't have as much worries about a structural steel beam getting in the way (especially for a helix-type path for the ride cars in a general direction as how the theaters revolved). They could even pour a separate foundation for the ride's track with deeper pylons if they wanted, while leaving the outer shell intact. Though the theater takes up as much as space as the Matterhorn, thankfully it's not an erector set on the inside like that attraction. There's enough space for a track that loads/unloads in the bottom where the queue would end, and then corkscrews 540 degrees up and outside the building, with more than enough space for show scenes along the way. They'd probably have to significantly modify, or demolish, part of the pizza port for the return to the load/unload, but small potatoes compared to building a whole new show building. Rocket Rodds failed in part due to it just being an aerial view of TL, they're eyeing addition show buildings/outside scenes, so that guests get to experience a story. They might add animatronics on the old People Mover load/unload, along with a totally refurbed exterior to match the Guardians/Avengers world, in addition to other theming along the track and ride vehicle effects. It probably wouldn't be the thrill ride that Space Mountain is, but more of a special effects extravaganza with some brief thrills, (such as speeding up to outer space, or through a futuristic city, in a 540 twisty path through the theater.) They thought about even having the Guardian/Avenger ride vehicle pass through Space, perhaps using part of the space where the old PM passed, but making it feel as though the ride was briefly in outer space, as opposed to simply a preview of Space. It was kinda tossed around as an homage to Tony Baxter's embryonic ideas about Indian Jones with the train/jungle cruise going through the ride. Who knows, the movie is doing well, and has this sort of 80's vibe that, obviously, still kinda influences Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By PeterPan1313 BTW, they've also thought about adapting the Nemo projection tech on a small scale for exterior ride vehicles by projecting "flight data" and communications on short transparent windows that don't reach up higher than the shoulders. The point being that while, yes, you're in Tomorrowland, you're still engaged with the story through these visuals, and other track effects. Might not work for a super serious franchise like Star Wars, but the humor in Guardians is kinda similar to the classic "Tom Morrow" spiel.
