Originally Posted By mrichmondj WDI needs to instill a culture about leaking information like they have at Apple. I'm surprised the Pixar clan hasn't brought some of thise corporate culture over yet. I know people at Apple who love their work, but they wouldn't dare talk about any specific details outside of the office. Steve Jobs has made himself well known as someone who will not discriminate when it comes to terminating someone for leaking corporate information. From top to bottom, I get a sense that the folks at Apple live in fear that they'll lose their job for having loose lips. In my opinion, a little fear isn't a bad thing in a corporate culture.
Originally Posted By aracuanbird ^^ What Disney misses--and what a lot of folks have alluded to in earlier posts--is that these "leaks" actually keep the enthusiast audience engaged and (when it's working in the Mouse's favor) anticipation high. I work for a firm that does a lot of entertainment work, and we are constantly forced to sign non-dislosure agreements. It is completely understandable why certain information should be protected and either never revealed or rolled out strategically. But--thinking strategically--there is nothing wrong with sharing information with a narrow audience in the interest of gauging reaction and sparking discussion. This can be done in locked-down focus group sessions, it can be done in open-ended surveys, it can be done in all sorts of ways. Look, for the most part, it's only the Disnoids who visit sites like this that give a dang about this information. Maybe, you could argue, some business writers may be interested in big things like DCA's positioning, maybe competitors will take an active interest. Why Disney does not--officially--share early information with enthusiasts and engage in discourse is beyond me. Sure, it is counter to the tight-lipped, constrained/constipated image they have built for themselves, but breaking down that reputation cannot hurt. Over at Jim Hill's Blumbleblog, there was an article a few days ago asserting that TWDC's execs think fans should lighten up. If that is true, if they actually give a fig about fan reaction, then I say open the door, invite fans in. Share your rationale for change before it is set in stone. It allows the company to adjust based on reaction, it allows more opportunity for buy-in from fans who otherwise take a marginalized outsider's position to new projects.
Originally Posted By jonvn "True, but then who would you have left? The janitors?" If that's what it takes. The behaviors there at WDI have resulted in nothing but garbage coming out of there for years now. Expensive garbage. "Perhaps, but what about the Disney plants on fan sites?" They are not violating company policy by leaking information to someone who is notoriously hostile towards the corporation. If that is even true. I can not think of a single person who would fit this bill, though.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Without wanting to sound like Barry Braverman, because there are REAL, SERIOUS DEFECTS" Of course it wasn't perfect when it opened. Nothing is. But it did open, and while it was good for when it opened, it needed to be added to at a good pace. That's what it needs. It needs to be plussed, and it needs to not have its original ideas, which are basically ok, thrown out and replaced with the out of theme junk they've put in. WDI seems simply incapable of carrying through a theme to the attraction level, or for maintaining proper theming from one area to the next. I guess that is a lost art.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer And while I am an Amusement/Theme Park fan, the big question is... Is DCA doing that poorly that the senior execs are looking to get "rid" of the park, and convert the area to mainly an extension of Downtown Disney? Therefore, if the park is not making money at the present, will $700 million of additional investment bring back a reasonable return? From strictly a Financial/Business viewpoint, Tony Baxter's plans make a lot of sense, especially short-term. You can get a lot of the costs to upgrade paid for by the companies that want to come in and place a shop or restaurant in the area, plus DVC hotels are paid for by the folks buying the 40 year plans in advance. Therefore, the major costs to Disney are redoing the entrance areas to help draw the convention crowd. Plus how much of a labor savings will Disney gain in the elimination of things like DCA's entertainment and characters. Sounds like the only thing the "parks" will have to take care of are the few big attractions that remain, so you would have to staff those, plus the cost of maintenance. And you should get a lot of revenue from selling either single ride tickets (say $5-$10) or a "one day" ride pass for Downtown Disney ($30 to $40). (A lot more than the current amount from one day DCA only tickets) Most of the tickets could be sold via ATM like machines (such as ARCO's Pay Point that takes both cash and credit cards), and by then, Ticket Tag (The finger check system) should be in Anaheim, so you could have multiple turnstiles at each attraction, and just one CM to watch over all of them. Just scan your ticket or pass (And I presume Multi-Day Disneyland tickets and AP's would include the DtD rides). So MAJOR cost savings, a lot of "external" money coming in to help pay for the upgrades/placemaking, and a chance to get more business away from the non-Disney restaurants and the Anaheim Garden Walk. And how many folks really stay an extra day JUST for DCA. First off, most park guests do not stay at a Disney owned hotel, the majority are locals, followed by those who stay off-property at other hotels or with relatives. And if DCA goes away, how many folks will just spend more time at Disneyland? And most of the merchandise sold at DCA can be bought at Disneyland and the World of Disney. For example pins, why do you need three locations for a new release of a pin (for example 500 for each location), just have 750 at Disneyland and 750 at the World of Disney. So I doubt Disney would lose much in Park Merchandise sells, but on the other hand, shops with different and unique things should add to DtD volume, and since the vast majority of leases have a certain gross percentage of sales going to the landlord, that would add to Disney bottom line. But it looks like Disney will try and keep it a separate park... So we shall see if Disney can turn the park around, since we know it is having serious problems (financially) at present.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Perhaps, but what about the Disney plants on fan sites? People who are paid, one way or another, to push the company's agenda/line ... to avoid any bad PR and/or disuade the mainstream reporters who lurk here from writing about potentially embarassing situations?" Are you serious? You are giving the Disney Internet community far too much credibility. While it wouldn't surprise me a bit if someone from Disney monitored the goings-on on these kinds of fan sites on occasion (the company would be stupid not to), I can't imagine why Disney would bother PAYING someone to sit around to post here hoping to sway opinion. For example, how many people do you think post on the DLR board on Laughing Place on a regular basis? 10? 20? 30? 50? I think it's safe to say that we represent a very small percentage of the public that visits Disney's parks, and therefore you can rest assured that it is highly unlikely that our collective opinions are of little importance to the powers-that-be at the WDC.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "WDI seems simply incapable of carrying through a theme to the attraction level, or for maintaining proper theming from one area to the next. I guess that is a lost art." You said a mouthful.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer There is a small group of CM's that prepares a daily information sheet that talks about what is happening on the internet. It is delivered to senior managers. In the past, Disneyland Jobs had listings that clearly stated that part of the person's job (a marketing position) would be to read and monitor Disney related web sites. I also know that at least one person (might have been 2, or the same person with two different names) that was posting regarding the YOAMD kickoff, and trying to get folks to sign up and register. The same posts ended up at multiple websites, and clearly was a marketing person from Disney. I know that some of my photos have had Disney take action, for example, when I found the "Toy Story Midway Mania" construction sign in plain view from Disneyland Drive, once it made the MousePlanet update, it was removed that day.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< More prolific at creating Anaheim's Pooh? A giant hubcap? Paradise Pier? You may personally enjoy some or all of these from an artistic, guest, and/or financial point of view, but I'm sure you realize that your opinion is in the minority. And please realize I'm not making any right or wrong judgement here.>> SuperDry there have been numerous other projects recently that don't have Tony's true fingerprints on them like Everest and TDS's ToT. >>> Those are two outstanding examples of WDI work. I haven't been on Everest yet, but I got to ride TDS ToT last week, and thought it was outstanding work from top to bottom. And I wasn't referring to "everybody but Tony" in my comments above but only to one group that consistently turns out poor work IMHO, and that a large amount of guests seem to feel the same way about, but certain factions within the company curiously seem to really like and want more of the same. Other guests seem to think the same thing about TDS ToT, as evidenced by the 220 minute standby time. The only thing that was a bit odd was that it seemed that it was a shrine to Joe Rohde, with him staring back at me no matter which direction I turned. I realize that this isn't something that most guests would be aware of, but I can imagine that if it had been Tony Baxter's likeness, some people would have commented negatively about it. It kind of dispells the notion of being against a "star" imagineer, eh?
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< I'm not sure $700 million would be enough ... but I am sure, if allocated correctly, would go a long way toward fixing the park. >>> But that's the crux of the issue, isn't it? If they're going to spend $700 million, it had better actually fix the problem, and not just go a long way toward doing so. Perhaps people think there's too much at stake to be the one to sign off on $700 million and then have it end up only partially fixing the problem. <<< Tony's idea says that DLR will never be a "WDW", in that .. even while WDW can have 4 gated theme parks which are successful .. DL in Anaheim can't as much as support 2 - Ever! >>> But Tony isn't addressing the situation of DL from 10 years ago: a successful park and a parking lot. The reality is that DCA is what it is today, so the question is, can DCA as it is today be transformed into a successful 2nd park for DLR? The answer to that question may be "not for $700 million," at least not with enough certaintly necessary for that amount of risk. And there's always guesswork involved, but sometimes it's an educated guess. My guess would be that they were pretty sure that TDS ToT and Everest were going to be very popular attractions, and that's exactly how they turned out. Maybe they're not so sure about a $700 million DCA upgrade.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <since we know it is having serious problems (financially) at present.> We do? If the decision is made to open it up into an expanded Downtown Disney -- there's no going back. It can't be temporary. Or short term as has been suggested. They can't open it up to be free, and then at some point in the future, close it up again and start charging admission. The biggest mistake was opening a too small park 50 yards away from Disneyland -- and charging the same admission cost. 'hmmm, which one will I choose?' Disney did it in Florida, and thought they could do it in California. And in Paris, and in Hong Kong. Tearing down the admission gates of DCA is one idea. So is bulldozing the whole place and starting from scratch. Neither one is going to happen.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<< Perhaps, but what about the Disney plants on fan sites? People who are paid, one way or another, to push the company's agenda/line ... to avoid any bad PR and/or disuade the mainstream reporters who lurk here from writing about potentially embarassing situations? >>> <<Well, I never thought about it quite like that before. You have an interesting perspective.>> SuperDry, I realize this may sound egotistical and it is not how it is meant at all, but I have a perspective that is totally unique in the Disney fan online community. Unfortunately, that's about all I'm willing to say on that subject.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<You mean Lee? Come on, he's no plant! It's just that he doesn't like people revealing company secrets (like he just did a few posts ago), but rather prefers to engage in his favorite passtime of self important name-dropping and making certain that we know he frequents "1401 Flower". Thinking it was some sort of a drag bar, I had to look it up to be sure, but that's actually DISNEY HEADQUARTERS!! How cool is THAT!? j/k Lee...nuthin but love for ya bro. >> I never suggested Lee was a plant perse, a veggie, yes, but not a plant.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Spirit do you really truly believe that they exist?>> I know for an absolute 100% sure fact they do. <<I honestly can't imagine why the Company would waste resources on something as trival as that.>> Because it took TWDC many years and many nasty Al Lutz quotes in mainstream media for people in Burbank to wake up and realize just how important sites like this one are. Do you know Bob Iger reads selected posts and posters from our little Laughing Place? Because he does. <<One plant isn't going to be able to sway public opinion.>> No. Of course not. But dozens of CMs from WDI, publicity, marketing and ops posting as just John Q Fanboy? They can certainly help mitigate potential damage and push discussions in other directions. <<It is also in polar opposite to the general PR policy at the Company to not deal with fansites.>> You do know that the PR business is all about lying, right? Saying one thing and doing the other? You're a savvy guy Lee. I know for a fact that Disney park publicists post on various websites. Why would they do that if not with the implicit (if not explicit) approval of the execs that are their bosses?
Originally Posted By jonvn So, am I one of these plants? Am I? I'd like to know, because people say that I am all the time. Where's my check?
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<The leaks are part and parcel of the way the political structure is in TWDC, especially in Burbank and Glendale. It isn't one side or one group doing the leaking. It's a giant urinating contest between various factions/teams who are fighting for jobs/projects/relevance. There are very few folks at WDI who take the high road and try and keep things in house. Joe Rohde is one, but he's an exception.>> <<You know I vehemently disagree with that statement. I'm sorry Spirit but that argument just doesn't stick with me. There are literally dozens of projects and new parks being worked on by WDI and as far as I know very little of it has reached the public domain "by leaks". However it always seems to revolve around a particular individual. It may be that he surrounded himself with people that can't keep secrets. I don't know.>> Then we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not saying that Tony doesn't engage in that behavior. Because he does. What I'm saying is that's basically the rule at WDI, not the exception. Things filter out. Look at the whole TSI makeover. Tony isn't involved in that at all, to my knowledge. Yet it's out there. Midway Mania, another non TB project, was leaked way before Disney announced it ... heck, they still haven't announced it yet have they? What about things that even you and I know and put out there? We both have mentioned things like the Steve Davison project for DAK. Is that OK because Disney is riding a wave of good (and deservedly so) publicity on the park with Everest and Nemo? What about the changes to the MK's Mansion you have hinted about (the only one online to my knowledge)? Is that OK with corporate because folks like me have been calling for Phil Holmes head over the pathetic condition the attraction has been allowed to decay? Maybe if that info gets leaked the Orlando Sentinel doesn't write a story about that? I really don't know, but I'm smart enough to wonder. Let's say you were a WDW publicist who had a history and a wife that worked at the Sentinel ... might you use both of those to your advantage? I know I would. <<Anyone in the corporate world would shudder at the level of insider knowledge that filters out from TDA/WDI. I know I sure would. Is it unique to Disney? Again no idea.>> No. It isn't unique at all. I'm involved in forums about other businesses and companies, including airlines and casinos. What is unique is the passion and the amount of sites devoted to Disney. That's what happens when you're such a beloved company. Gotta take the good with the bad. It's those passionate fans that buy DVC interests, AP,s LE pins etc ... if Disney wanted an audience of first-timers they'd go out of business tomorrow. Their heritage ... the legacy of providing the best in family entertainment and theme parks is going to keep pushing these things out there. But Lee, if that weren't the case, no one would be reading/buying your magazine. No one would be here. People care. Some maybe too much (but unfortunately, those folks aren't in the exec suites). <<You would have to be very foolish to believe that you can wage internal battles in the public domain. Managers don't take too kindly to that.>> Again, that's only true if the managers aren't cultivating an atmosphere where that's the natural progression.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<WDI needs to instill a culture about leaking information like they have at Apple. I'm surprised the Pixar clan hasn't brought some of thise corporate culture over yet. I know people at Apple who love their work, but they wouldn't dare talk about any specific details outside of the office. Steve Jobs has made himself well known as someone who will not discriminate when it comes to terminating someone for leaking corporate information. From top to bottom, I get a sense that the folks at Apple live in fear that they'll lose their job for having loose lips.>> I know John Lasseter is not happy over the amount of information that pours out of Glendale. Whether he'll be able to change that culture is another matter. <<In my opinion, a little fear isn't a bad thing in a corporate culture.>> Agreed. The problem stems from lack of accountability ... and that's prevalent at WDI and, even more so, at the exec level of the resorts themselves.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Of course it wasn't perfect when it opened. Nothing is. But it did open, and while it was good for when it opened, it needed to be added to at a good pace. That's what it needs. It needs to be plussed, and it needs to not have its original ideas, which are basically ok, thrown out and replaced with the out of theme junk they've put in. >> I agree. But those were all desperation moves. They need a plan ... a focused well though out plan to fix what's wrong and what doesn't work. <<WDI seems simply incapable of carrying through a theme to the attraction level, or for maintaining proper theming from one area to the next. I guess that is a lost art.>> You said a mouthful. Been to WDW lately? Take a look at how watered down the three oldest parks are. How the MK's lands don't have focus anymore as they've been overrun by characters and merchandise and costuming that doesn't belong. Look at the mess that Epcot has become ... it's always the cheapest route ... it's always the character/movie property of the moment. It's like they took Walt and John Hench's playbook and tossed it in the trash. And they wonder why many fans are so unhappy.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Are you serious? You are giving the Disney Internet community far too much credibility. >> Hans, I'm just telling you what I know is a fact. You do not have to believe it, but it won't change a thing. <<While it wouldn't surprise me a bit if someone from Disney monitored the goings-on on these kinds of fan sites on occasion (the company would be stupid not to), I can't imagine why Disney would bother PAYING someone to sit around to post here hoping to sway opinion.>> I don't know for certain that anyone is specifically PAID just to post on Disney fan sites. I do know that Disney employees, and I'm not talking about a churro vendor or desk clerk at the DLH, post the company line on sites such as this with the approval of people at very high levels. That's it. <<For example, how many people do you think post on the DLR board on Laughing Place on a regular basis? 10? 20? 30? 50? I think it's safe to say that we represent a very small percentage of the public that visits Disney's parks, and therefore you can rest assured that it is highly unlikely that our collective opinions are of little importance to the powers-that-be at the WDC.>> I don't want to be impolite, but all I can say is that's not correct. Not at all.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<So, am I one of these plants? Am I? >> I dunno ... are you? <<I'd like to know, because people say that I am all the time. Where's my check?>> Well, a friend of mine has been waiting for a check from WDI for six months now ... and you can bet it doesn't take that long for Tony Baxter or Tom Fitzgerald to get their 'expense' checks paid!
