Originally Posted By mele So, Obama hates America because he goes to a church where the reverend occasionally/often (?) gives inflammatory speeches about America but Palin is married to someone who wants Alaska to secede and it means nothing?
Originally Posted By mawnck Nope - they both mean not-much. Come on man, brain on, please. No more regurgitation and black-and-white thinking.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Most of the fetuses or embryos aborted aren't yet "babies."> Really? When does it happen? When my kids were in my wife's womb, we always called them babies. Were we wrong?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Really? When does it happen? When my kids were in my wife's womb, we always called them babies. Were we wrong?<< Were you wrong? I don't think so. My wife and I called our children "babies" while they were in the womb too. But they were children we were anxious to have and would be born into a loving, healthy environment. Just as I don't fault you for calling your children babies, I won't fault a rape victim who becomes pregnant for referring to it as a fetus or embryo. The point is the term one chooses to use, and how one views a fetus, depends on one's emotional connection to it, not a scientific definition. So if you want to look at what an embryo or fetus actually is, then yes, you would be wrong to call it a baby. "Baby" is a term used to describe newborns and infants, and in some cases, toddlers. Embryos and fetuses, depending on which stage they're in, don't even have brain neurons yet. They're incapable of thought, pain, or feeling. I know this clashes with the conservative attempts to portray children in the womb as a cute toddler on the carpet that just rolled over for the first time, but it's the truth.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh Very well. I'll amend my earlier point to remove any "red herrings". You know, roughly half the fetuses or embryos aborted every year would otherwise grow up to be women. I guess NOW doesn't care about their rights. That better?
Originally Posted By Mr X Here's the rub. None of the parties give a damn about any individual or their "rights" (baby, fetus, adult or "other")..it's just politically expedient for the right wing bible thumper crowd (read "family values") to pay lip service to an issue that they really don't give a crap about. They pride themselves on this family values thing, and then they warmonger their way into one mess after another killing THOUSANDS of ACTUAL American "babies" (yeah..."young men and women" sounds more noble right?)...in the name of "national security" (read..warmongering). So this pro-life thing is just a political stunt. Do you think it should be illegal for a raped woman to abort their baby, Douglas? Answer yes or no. If "yes", do you think it should be illegal for a woman in danger of a childbirth death to abort their baby? Answer yes or no. After answering, please explain how this is NOT a complicated issue, and why you answered yes or no to either question. If you don't mind. My point is NOT to put you on the spot, per se..but to illustrate how complicated this issue OBVIOUSLY is..assuming the people debating the issue have a few more brain cells at their disposal than your average trailer trash poll respondent.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh I do not believe it should be illegal for a raped woman to abort their baby, nor should it be illegal for a woman in danger of a childbirth death to do so. I believe that, while life is precious, there are things more important, and sometimes some life must be sacrificed to achieve a greater good. This is why I'm not opposed to the death penalty or war.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh And I don't agree that this pro-life "thing" is a political stunt. Some people feel very strongly about it, and I respect their beliefs.
Originally Posted By Mr X Thank you for your post, Doug. Much appreciate the honesty, and straightforwardness.
Originally Posted By Mr X I think it is a political stunt among those who have to tow the line for the neocon agenda. I do believe that. McCain was severely hobbled by that reality, I believe. Thus, he picked Palin (and satisfied the rabid right in their demand for a hardcore pro-life running mate).
Originally Posted By Skellington88 If she isn't affiliated with the Alaskan Independence party why are there several videos on youtube of her speaking about them and showing up to their meetings and speeking???
Originally Posted By jdub I don't even know what speeking IS, but I'm not sure if my eyes are prepared to see a video of her doing it!
