Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Does the Confederate flag appear in the Two Brothers segment? If so, what is the context? It's one thing to include it in a film presentation that tells the story of the Civil War, it's another to glorify it in a public display in 2015 with other national flags.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad I don't know how i should feel in this discussion. I've been in the south my whole life and I'm grouped in with the dredges of society. People just trash us all and stereotype and generalize while calling for political correctness. To me the confederate flag represented southern pride. It had nothing to do with slavery. It represented hard work, country, hunting, fishing, fighting to survive ,family, fried chicken, cold ice tea, love of the land. It told you where I was from and that I would fight to protect it. Unfortunately it has been turned into a symbol of negativity now and has been hijacked for political purposes. I understand people wanting it removed. I know nothing about the nazi flag other than the evil it represents to me. Does that mean I should demand its destruction? If the confederate flag causes the same reaction to a whole race of people then it probably should be removed. But don't condemn anyone who doesn't agree because it may mean something totally different to them. The SC state house should fly the Stars and Stripes and the state flag and look to the future. However it shouldn't forget the past or the people who live there. My family lost 5 brothers in the civil war and I am named after the one that survived. I don't support slavery or racism but I do support a persons right to believe as they see fit. I have the right to believe those things were wrong just like I have a right to try to see the good things in the south. I'm proud of my family heritage because they fought and died for what they thought was right. Remember that there are good and bad people everywhere.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I'm as southern as they come, but my take: if that flag should fly, an army needs (or needed) to fight for it and win. Since that did not happen, The USA stands supreme. The CSA only existed for three measly years, as much as the Democrats could hold onto it.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn It'll all be good when my state secedes and joins the United States of Texas. Then we won't have any of this mess.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I would love nothing better that to get rid of Texas and any states that want to join them. I have no problem with Southern Pride. They have much to be proud of... the hardships they have come through and what they represent today. Many southern cities offer opportunities to Black people that are significantly better than those available in the north. But WHY OH WHY have a flag of an armed force that waged war on the United States of America as your symbol of that pride? As a someone born and raised in the north the Confederate Flag has always offended the hell out of me. No offense, but you lost the damned war. Take the stinking thing down already.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Does the Confederate flag appear in the Two Brothers segment? If so, what is the context?<< Yes, it's clearly shown in the picture frame-type thing that has Lincoln's photo on the American flag and Davis's(?) on the Confederate one. This imagery also appears in Great Moments with Mr Lincoln at DL. Here's a video of the Epcot version: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mqkIV1bGrE">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...kIV1bGrE</a> Fun fact: the photo with the coffin at the Mullers Landing train station was actually taken at DL's NOS train station, at the little shed on the 'other side' of the tracks >>But WHY OH WHY have a flag of an armed force that waged war on the United States of America as your symbol of that pride?<< I agree that I wouldn't want to fly that flag myself, but what would you propose instead? It seems like it was taken more for convenience (pre-made recognizable flag) than anything else. Any of the other iconic symbols of southern heritage, like cotton, barbecue/soul food, or colonnaded neoclassical mansions, all have their own implications of racism and slavery. Plus it would be hard to find something that represented all of the south, since the terrain and culture varies throughout the region
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad I have never flown the flag. I agree it should probably be taken down. I am just tired of blanket statements. " that flag represents racism hatred slavery". It may represent they to you but it may not represent that others. It seems like the only point of view that matters is tha which is yelled the loudest.
Originally Posted By CarolinaDisneyDad What should have happened is when groups started using the flag for the wrong reasons good people should have stood up and demanded it be used correctly instead of it becoming a symbol for the KKK, racial protest, or anything else.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It may represent they to you but it may not represent that others*** Surely some German patriots enjoyed the hoisting of the swastika, too. Doesn't make it okay, generally speaking. ***It seems like the only point of view that matters is that which is yelled the loudest*** Yep. Cuts both ways, too.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It seems like the only point of view that matters is that which is yelled the loudest*** Yep. Cuts both ways, too. Sorry, gotta elaborate further. For SO long the haters have insisted to gay people "GEEZ! If you'd just TONE IT DOWN already! You have no RIGHT to throw this CRAP in our FACES!" And yet, for all the good it did them, they'd have been better off speaking out sooner. And louder. Now, the angry black voices are daring to speak their thoughts. Are they wrong? Well, I suppose you could come up with a counter-argument. The only question is, is your vitriol a just anger? Or just anger?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It seems like the only point of view that matters is that which is yelled the loudest*** Yep. Cuts both ways, too. Sorry, gotta elaborate further. For SO long the haters have insisted to gay people "GEEZ! If you'd just TONE IT DOWN already! You have no RIGHT to throw this CRAP in our FACES!" And yet, for all the good it did them, they'd have been better off speaking out sooner. And louder. Now, the angry black voices are daring to speak their thoughts. Are they wrong? Well, I suppose you could come up with a counter-argument. The only question is, is your vitriol a just anger? Or just anger?
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Unfortunately it has been turned into a symbol of negativity now and has been hijacked for political purposes." You have got to be kidding me. It's always been a symbol of negativity. The reason it rose to prominence as a symbol of southern pride is because it got used in order to fight against the civil rights movement. And since its original use was a symbol to fight for slavery...
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>The CSA only existed for three measly years, as much as the Democrats could hold onto it.<< How long did the Republic of Texas or the California Republic last? Yet nobody has any problem with those. Some of the flags included, like the Gadsden flag ("Don't Tread on Me"), were never even official of anything >>What should have happened is when groups started using the flag for the wrong reasons good people should have stood up and demanded it be used correctly...<< I agree. But similar to the "marriage is a religious sacrament, so the government should call their thing something different", that ship sailed so long ago that the point is essentially moot. But back to the point, I'm going to judge anybody flying the flag by itself just like I always have. But in a retrospective museum-like setting, I think it's an appropriate inclusion >>Surely some German patriots enjoyed the hoisting of the swastika, too. Doesn't make it okay, generally speaking.<< If we wan to make parallels to the Nazi flag, then I think we should also include the discussion of how the swastika originated in religious architecture and artwork (particularly Buddhist), and continues to be rather prevalent today despite its well known connection to the Nazis. This is just harder to split apart, since the flag wasn't in wide circulation until people started coopting it to protest the Civil Rights movement in the 1960's. It's also a lot harder to remove a design element from a building or piece of art than it is to take down a piece of fabric on a pole, making any use of the flag subject to continuous scrutiny
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "Unfortunately it has been turned into a symbol of negativity now and has been hijacked for political purposes." Turned into? You have been living in a bubble. "What should have happened is when groups started using the flag for the wrong reasons good people should have stood up and demanded it be used correctly instead of it becoming a symbol for the KKK, racial protest, or anything else." You really don't understand why Southern white supremacists use the Confederate flag, do you?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The flag was used in a war to keep slavery going. It became the flag of choice for the KKK. Later, it was dusted off and flown again as a show of defiance against civil rights of black people. This isn't some difficult thing to comprehend. Any way you slice it, this flag is a racist symbol. This is not some new concept. How is it so difficult to accept for some?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>groups started using the flag for the wrong reasons<< There has never been a "right" reason to fly that flag. It was created to rally those fighting to oppress black people and keep them in bondage forever, even if it meant forming a new nation. The only "right" reason to show it is in history books and museums, where it can be used to show how not to behave.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>If we wan to make parallels to the Nazi flag, then I think we should also include the discussion of how the swastika originated<< Why? No matter how benign a symbol may be when first created, once it is co-opted to represent extremely hideous acts of genocide, we don't really need to go much behind that. I mean, yeah, it's interesting and all. But is there really room for any debate that the swastika is pretty much off the table as a symbol of anything but death and hate and misery from here on out?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>But is there really room for any debate that the swastika is pretty much off the table as a symbol of anything but death and hate and misery from here on out?<< I agree that's the first thing that pops into my mind, but it still remains rather prominent throughout Buddhist art and architecture. I'm sure that there is a significant population who sees a completely different meaning in the symbol <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.theosophy.wiki/mywiki/images/3/3e/Swastika_Buddha.jpg">http://www.theosophy.wiki/mywi...ddha.jpg</a> <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.niche-creative.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Swastika-Korean-Temple-300-x-6201.jpg">http://www.niche-creative.co.u...6201.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://tinyurl.com/ppbnwvb">http://tinyurl.com/ppbnwvb</a>
Originally Posted By Socrates Quick comment: If this were only about history, SC would be flying the flag of Great Britain. They flew the British flag for much longer than the Confederate flag. Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
