Originally Posted By Dabob2 DFTT. "The people causing mayhem and violence in these protests are the same kinds of people who cause mayhem and violence following Super Bowl victory celebrations. The crowd provides them the opportunity to stir up problems and destroy things. They really don't need a reason, just the opportunity." Exactly. And that's the best I've seen it stated. I have no doubt there have been some provacateurs in some of the Occupy crowds, but I think most of the violence, certainly in Oakland, was just garden variety street thugs using the protests as opportunity to do their thing, much as with a super bowl celebration.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I'll point out there wasn't any violence and mayhem at the last Superbowl celebration.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>That is happening in Oakland. The Occupy folks are saying that the violence is not what they're about<<< Oakland is the group DDMAN was referring to, not the whole movement. To turn this into a party thing or say it is people "hired" to make the movement look bad is ridiculous. This group of "protestors" are using this as an excuse to participate in criminal behavior, just like the BART cop shooting (I disagreed with that verdict, BTW, but I didn't see the point in being distructive about it in ones' own town). If you lived near Oakland and watched the news, like I do, you'd see how absurd it is to suggest it might be a group paid to make the movement look bad.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Oh you know.... The greatest professional franchise in all of sports.< the NCAA ?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<If you lived near Oakland and watched the news, like I do, you'd see how absurd it is to suggest it might be a group paid to make the movement look bad.>> First off, I've been living in San Francisco for over twenty years now. And I've been watching and reading daily about the Occupy Movement since September. You have no better insight into this situation than anyone else here who also lives in the Bay Area. Second, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that troublemakers would be hired by the opposition to incite violence; that's straight out of the power elite playbook from past demonstration movements, particularly during the Civil Rights and Vietnam marches. Earlier this year, Scott Walker even admitted to the 'fake Koch brother' that his team considered doing this very thing with the Wisconsin protesters, but feared having anarchists deliberately inciting violence would backfire on him. I never stated that these anarchists were all or mainly hired guns. I posited that perhaps some of them might be, or could be in the future, especially given the worldwide attention Occupy Oakland has received as of late. The possibility exists and should not be dismissed so readily.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Has there ever been any reports of violence or sexual assault at any Tea Party rallies?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 With the average age skewing to late 50's-60's, I hope not. "This group of "protestors" are using this as an excuse to participate in criminal behavior" Yes, but let's be clear. Even in Oakland it was a small fraction of the protesters, who protested peacefully for hours. Only much later did the violence break out. In fact, in the morning editions of the NY papers, there was only mention of the peaceful protest, because the violence was so late.
Originally Posted By mawnck Darn that darn Oakland. >>OAKLAND, Calif. (AP) - Dozens of Occupy Oakland protesters are pitching in to clean up Oakland's downtown area after a night of violence by a small group from the demonstration. Officials are still assessing damage to properties surrounding the city hall plaza, where 7,000 people gathered Wednesday to support the anti-Wall Street movement. ... People who participated in the mostly peaceful daytime actions returned Thursday to help sweep up debris and scrub off graffiti. Occupy Oakland organizers have blamed the late-night violence on a small group that was not there for a political message.<< <a href="http://www.kron4.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=2232" target="_blank">http://www.kron4.com/Article.a...eID=2232</a>
Originally Posted By mawnck Even more horrors in Nashville. Conservatives, take note: >>The group of young Republicans from Vanderbilt University marched up to the group of Occupy Nashville protesters sitting on the steps to Legislative Plaza on Thursday evening. The small group of about 20 students was armed with signs and chanting. The group was quickly drowned out by a roar of cheers and applause from the nearly 150 Occupy Nashville protesters. Some called out, “We love you” to the students as the two groups faced each other: the students standing at the foot of the stairs and the Occupy Nashville group sitting at the entrance to the plaza. Chanting from the students, “We are the debt generation!” was quickly amplified as Occupy Nashville protesters started joining in. It wasn’t long after that the two groups combined. Many shook hands and broke into small discussion groups, intent upon hearing each other’s views.<< <a href="http://www.tennessean.com/article/20111104/NEWS01/311040072/Occupy-Nashville-Republican-students-find-common-ground" target="_blank">http://www.tennessean.com/arti...n-ground</a>
Originally Posted By mawnck Actual footage of Occupy Oakland "rioters" trying to stop the REAL rioters (the Oakland Liberation front a/k/a the Black Bloc) from trashing a store yesterday: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWm2ZJbATHc" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...2ZJbATHc</a>
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>Yes, but let's be clear. Even in Oakland it was a small fraction of the protesters, who protested peacefully for hours.<<< Yes, that's true, and was true of the BART cop protest as well. I'm not saying the Occupy Oakland protest has any different intent then any other occupy protest, and I know there are a group of people there who truly want change. The "protesters" who participate in the violence aren't really part of the movement at all, they are just violent people looking for an excuse. That was my initial point, it just didn't come across well. Oakland is a city known to have a lot of violence and the "thug" mentality that DDMAN speaks of is those looking for any chance they can find to be destructive. It's unfortunate too because it takes away from the true reason the protest is taking place and makes the "Occupy" movement look bad.
Originally Posted By mawnck Remember the Ticker Guy? I wonder which side he's on? >>It just simply isn't true folks. Were it true these agitators would have immediately turned this demonstration into an all-on riot. The opportunity and density of people necessary was certainly there, if the people demonstrating were disposed to do so -- there was little or no police presence and literally nothing other than the desire of the demonstrators that kept the demonstration almost-entirely peaceful. Were that not true Oakland would have been sacked last night. Were there criminals in the crowd? Yes. There are at the local beach too on any given Sunday. That doesn't make the entire group of people on the beach crooks. I have said since the beginning of this movement that if I discern that it has violent intent that my position will shift instantly. So will virtually everyone else's, and in my opinion it should. Thus far the evidence to support such a position is entirely absent and evidence to the contrary -- that these demonstrations are lawful and peaceful expressions protected under The First Amendment -- is overwhelming. The true test of whether you actually believe in the fundamental right of free speech and peaceful assembly comes when the person(s) exercising it express an opinion that you personally disagree with.<< <a href="http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=196998" target="_blank">http://market-ticker.org/akcs-...t=196998</a>
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 And what of the reports of sexual assaults happening at various Occupy camps across the country. In Dallas, a 14 year old girl may have been involved. In Baltimore organizers were telling people to not report any sexual assaults to the police. That "they would deal with it." Oh and in NY one of the volunteers was accused of assault by two women so what did they do, they told him to leave. Oooohhh.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<Yes, but let's be clear. Even in Oakland it was a small fraction of the protesters, who protested peacefully for hours. Only much later did the violence break out. In fact, in the morning editions of the NY papers, there was only mention of the peaceful protest, because the violence was so late.>> There shouldn't have been any in the first place.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Absolutely no one disagrees with this. In fact, there was. And it was perpetrated by a relative handful of anarchists who infiltrated the demonstrators, after midnight, and engaged in their cowardly and knuckleheaded acts. In no way does this reflect on the larger Occupy movement. See?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 But yet if it happened at a Tea Party rally most here would say it represents and is typical of the entire movement. That's hypocritical. And you know I've never expressed support for the Tea Party.
Originally Posted By gadzuux It's unlikely that a tea party demonstration would be going on well after midnight in the first place.
