Originally Posted By Dabob2 It's not like it's an easy decision. He has generals telling him one thing, State Dept. experts telling him another, still others urging a middle path. Each thinks they're right and the others present a recipe for disaster. Right now it's essentially the same uneasy (and sometimes deadly) stalemate of the last x-number of years. So weighing the decision is not such a bad thing. We're seeing more casualties now, but we always do before the winter sets in. And if anything it was the neglect under the final years of Bush that let the Taliban control more of the country than previously. It's just disingenuous for people to claim that Obama is "waffling" when Bush let the situation stagnate for seven freaking years. At least now it's getting attention and we'll HAVE a coherent policy when the decision is made.
Originally Posted By ecdc I almost wrote in my original post, "Cue right wing outrage over claims of a photo op in 3...2...1." But then I thought, "Nah, let's give them the benefit of the doubt." Clearly I was wrong. In fairness to Bush, he did state he felt it was more appropriate to visit with the dead soldiers' families, which he did do regularly. I hated the Orwellian - perfect word, Dabob - restrictions, but I can give him a pass on his personal involvement. Bush wasn't Cheney - he has a heart.
Originally Posted By Mr X What scares me is that every time we hear from someone who actually lives there or has spent time there and knows the place, they sound completely hopeless about any even potentially good outcome. I sure wouldn't want to be in President Obamas shoes trying to decide where to go on that. I guess if I were more of a "shoot first and refuse questions later" kinda guy, it might be easier though.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 And why is this so important to anyone except his opponents anyway? << As someone who could be going there 3 to 9 months from now based on his decision this matters greatly. My life is going to be in a holding pattern until he makes a decision along with countless other troops.... So it does matter greatly to many Americans...
Originally Posted By Spyderman >>It would impress me if he actually made a decision on Afganistan instead of voting "present" refusing to make a decision either way. How many more soldiers are going to have to die until he makes a decision? One of my biggest fears of having President Obama elected was the fact that he doesn't like to make decisions that could hurt him politically... We are seeing an example of this with his indecision on Afghanistan...<< His Afghanistan decision will affect America FOREVER. I think he deserves some time to think it through. This isn't like deciding what your gonna have for dinner.
Originally Posted By Mr X While I can certainly sympathize with your situation, how is that any different than the way things were under Bush?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I don't have any problem with Obama going to Dover (or having his picture taken there). And, I don't have a problem with Bush NOT going to Dover because I know he spent time with families of the fallen. Hey, if President Bartlet could go do Dover then I have no problem with Obama doing so.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 While I can certainly sympathize with your situation, how is that any different than the way things were under Bush?<< I've always had plenty of notice before deployments under President Bush, even with the surge, 6 months in advance we were fairly certain he was going to approve it so we planned accordingly and were ready... With President Obama we have 15 to 25 thousand troops basically not knowing if they will deploy or not... My guess is once he makes the decision, the military will be given little to no time to actually get the troops there if he calls for an increase.. Trust me, I wasn't a President Bush cheerleader, but at least he made decisions, granted in retrospect those decisions sucked, but he actually did make them... I would love for President Obama to say something like, a decision will be made in 90, 120 , 180 days...Just something instead of indecision...
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I don't have any problem with Obama going to Dover (or having his picture taken there). And, I don't have a problem with Bush NOT going to Dover because I know he spent time with families of the fallen.<< Big difference, alot of people dont realize that President Bush met with families as he kept it fairly low key... I have seen tons of press online concerning this visit by President Obama, which to me tells me it was a photo op...
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Trust me, I wasn't a President Bush cheerleader, but at least he made decisions, granted in retrospect those decisions sucked, but he actually did make them...*** Um, you did NOT just write that you prefer a BAD decision to no decision at all. Did you? One of them is much worse. I think it's not the one you think it is.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I guess I just can't get that worked up about it. That is the problem with a lot of my Republican counterparts these days. They are just throwing darts at anything that moves, hoping something will stick. And, for that, they all look like idiots. Pick and fight the real battles and I'd have a lot more respect for my party right now.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I have seen tons of press online concerning this visit by President Obama, which to me tells me it was a photo op...<< William, your logic - or lack thereof - is truly astounding sometimes. The press covered it so it's a photo op? Wow. By your logic, the Lewinsky scandal, shark attacks, and 9/11 were all "photo ops" then. You have no evidence or reason to believe it was a photo op beyond your own dedication to truthiness. It just "feels" like a photo op, so it must be. Facts or truth be damned.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Considering this President is only doing it for a photo op isn't something to get excited about either... >> I'm excited that under this President we're actually allowed to take photos of occasions like this, as unfortunate as it may be that the occasion exists in the first place.
Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://publicintellectual.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/sept14_bushbeckwithbullhorn.jpg" target="_blank">http://publicintellectual.file...horn.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 <a href="http://publicintellectual.file...horn.jpg<<" target="_blank">http://publicintellectual.file...<<</a> Yup photo op too... Its not that he did it that is the issue, it's that they are taking these staged photos that I have the problem with...
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I've always had plenty of notice before deployments under President Bush, even with the surge, 6 months in advance we were fairly certain he was going to approve it so we planned accordingly and were ready... >> Your unit is lucky. I have quite a number of friends who have deployed on less than 10 days notice.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Wrong picture X. If you wanted to really drive your point home you would have used the picture of Bush on the carrier with "Mission Accomplished" above. Obama putting on bowling shoes and trying to look like a "regular guy" is a photo op. Going to Dover isn't...as far as I'm concerned.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << It's just disingenuous for people to claim that Obama is "waffling" when Bush let the situation stagnate for seven freaking years. At least now it's getting attention and we'll HAVE a coherent policy when the decision is made. >> It also shows a clear lack of understanding with the assessment that General McChrystal provided the President. General McChrystal's entire assessment and recommendation is based upon shifting to counter-insurgency tactics throughout Afghanistan. A major component of any counter-insurgency is cooperation with the local government. Until the election is resolved in Afghanistan, we have no idea how willing a partner the next government will be. Is it prudent to send 40,000 more troops to Afghanistan to execute a tactic that requires close cooperation with the government when that government may turn out to be not so cooperative?
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 I have quite a number of friends who have deployed on less than 10 days notice.<< Were they Special Forces? Last time we got deployed on 30 day notice, but we knew 6 months before we got notice that we were likely deploying,,,
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Were they Special Forces? >> They were Sailors. In case you didn't get the word, we have over 15,000 Sailors on the ground in Iraq and Aghanistan. They aren't part of a "deployable" unit -- they just show up to work one day and get told they are being sent.
