Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn He has been neutralized. EVERYTHING surrounding this fact; pictures, he said / she said, WWWD (What Would W DO?), all of it is completely extraneous.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I'm curious to know how America and the World would respond to a need to see the photos if he was killed during Bush's administration. It sounds really nice to say we don't want to see the photos. But, answer this: Why is there an hour long traffic jam everytime there is a car accident on the side of the road...completely clear of the roadway?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Ahhh, disregard my question in 22. It is probably only Republicans that slow down to see a car wreck.
Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn If Bush were POTUS, I am quite certain we would have photos. I honestly don't think it matters either way. I mean think about it. The US goes into Pakistan, kills Bin Laden who is evidently unarmed (never mind the thousands of Americans he has had killed and the millions more he wants to kill) and the radical Muslims are very PO'ed. I don't think releasing photos in an effort to stem violent reactions or "hurt feelings" is even relevant. We've done far more to anger the Muslims by just crossing the Af/Pak border. "Don't release the photos. They will make Muslims mad at us." Silly.
Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn While I don't care either way about the photos, I do however greatly agree with the burial at sea.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper No, I'm sure Bush would have released the photos. What I'm asking is, what would the reaction of his critics have been if he didn't release the photos? Would everyone have "trusted" that we really did get bin Laden...all other circumstances being equal? I don't know the answer...but it would have been interesting to see.
Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn Oh..... ok ok ok that is very differnt wahoo. I think that the Left would have had an absolute melt down if W had gotten Osama while he was in office and the photos were kept classified. I don't think that anyone trusted W or his administration at all by the end. It sort of makes you wonder why everyone is "ok" with Obama not releasing them. I think it's part of the "Carte Blanche" that the Left and the moderates / (undecideds?) seem to grant Obama. I'm trying to be completely neutral here, and so if I come off as being biased, please call me out. I'll do my best to further explain. I wouldn't have trusted W at his word. But there seems to be so many people surrounding Obama, nodding in agreement that Bin Laden is had; the military, the rest of the WH, the Hill, everyone. Bush was a loner. I don't know that so many people in the US Gov would be as involved as they seem to be with Obama. That aspect also lends a lot more "trust" to Obama at his word, that Bin Laden is had. Bottom line: *SHRUG* You post a very interesting question Wahoo.
Originally Posted By Labuda "I don't think that anyone trusted W or his administration at all by the end." Do you blame us? We were lied to for EIGHT YEARS.
Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn Well Ann, it's a bit over reaching to claim that everything W ever said or did for his entire 8 years was a lie. But no I don't blame anyone for how they feel toward anyone else. I mean, things just are what they are, but at the end of the day, A LOT more of what took place in W's 8 years is either "good" or "bad" based of the perspective from which it is viewed. And then some decisions he made actually didn't matter in the end. For example, stem cells. Today, we can now get stem cells from cord blood without destroying an embryo. He was right, but back then, the world hated that decision. A lot of things just are what they are.
Originally Posted By Mr X There is no pressing "need" to release photos. Anyone who distrusts the government enough to want to see photos, is also distrustful enough to question the photos as well. Therefore, any release would be meaningless. AND, along those lines, any photos would HELP al queda in fulfilling their goals by making that piece of shit a martyr. So, there is no upside, and I support MY President in his smart decision. At some point, and if possible, I would hope the photos might be made available to the families of victims of mass murderer bin Laden around the world at some point. But that's up to the families and the President. Aside from those folks, who might be seeking some final form of closure somehow, it's none of our business. I applause President Obama and his restraint.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***it's a bit over reaching to claim that everything W ever said or did for his entire 8 years was a lie*** No, not really. He really sucked. Good luck defending the guy when history calls...he was a horrible president and a monster.
Originally Posted By Mr X And yeah, I DID call "W" a monster. He really was. As was bin Ladin. And past monsters, too. I can't equate one with the other, but they were all MONSTROUS in their own ways (in the W case, it was his fetish and LUST for torture that made him a monster).
Originally Posted By Labuda "At some point, and if possible, I would hope the photos might be made available to the families of victims of mass murderer bin Laden around the world at some point. But that's up to the families and the President." I feel that would be a grave mistake, and you know darned well that if even one member of one victim's family got to see the image, it would be worldwide super fast. It needs to remain classified.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I'm pretty disgusted with right wing sites such as Fox and Drudge and others bitching about the President and his decisions right now...distasteful AND inappropriate, to say the least!> Especially because you know if Obama had decided the other way and released the photos, their headlines would have screamed "Did Obama just make us less safe by releasing these photos??!!" And their pundits would have argued just the opposite of what they're arguing now.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I think it's part of the "Carte Blanche" that the Left and the moderates / (undecideds?) seem to grant Obama.> You must not read a lot of lefty websites or journalists. From health care to keeping Guantanamo open to the continuing wars to watered-down financial reform to caving in to GOP demands to extend the Bush tax cuts... he has gotten anything but 'carte blanche' from the left.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***"At some point, and if possible, I would hope the photos might be made available to the families of victims of mass murderer bin Laden around the world at some point. But that's up to the families and the President." I feel that would be a grave mistake*** Maybe so. Either way, I stand by the White House in their decision one way or the other. *I* personally have no need for further proof. I don't think anyone else needs it either. BUT, if the families of victims around the world need it for closure, I would never say otherwise (personally), and I would hope they'd release it to them if it seems necessary. Otherwise, yeah. Keep it under wraps. I trust the President and his judgement on this matter. I'm confident that he is keeping the victims of that monster within his careful consideration, and I'm sure he's looking into it for them. The rest of us can simply rest assured on this matter. We know they got the job done.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >if the families of victims around the world need it for closure< If they need a photo of a man shot through the head for closure they have bigger issues than closure.
Originally Posted By Mr X Who are you or I to speak to their issues with closure? If one of MY family members was crushed to death when those towers fell, I can't say one way or the other what I'd want to see as far as the demise of their killer.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The only compelling argument I've heard thus far in favor of releasing the photos is that, eventually, they will be released via a leak or by some future administration. The argument is that since it is practically inevitable that they will get out, it's better to control their release in a thoughtful way rather than be forced to react and be unprepared. There's something to that, but i still agree with the decision not to release them now. I also think many of the people who are crowing about releasing them now would be crowing about Obama being a ghoul if he did release the pictures. So it's a given that with some people (coughtalkradiofoxcough), he cannot win. Ever. Their thoughts on the matter are really irrelevant.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I also think many of the people who are crowing about releasing them now would be crowing about Obama being a ghoul if he did release the pictures*** No doubt. I'll stick by my word on this one, I see NO need for it unless the victims' families around the world might feel the need to see it...if so they should make special arrangements. For the rest of us, it's simply unnecessary and I stand by our President on this one 100%.
