Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Wahoo, I asked before but didn't see an answer, what good do you think releasing the photos would do in terms of US foreign relations? In other words, will we be better off for some reason by releasing them, and if so, why? What is in out own self interest?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Not exactly glowing reviews by any stretch*** That's fair enough. He is NOT pleasing the true liberals. He's certainly a figure of hatred for the true conservatives (though that's hardly surprising). He is, and never pretended not to be really, a true centrist. And, a gutsy leader if you ask me.
Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn Post 59 sounds very reasonable. I am quite possibly wrong. However commenting on X's post, its a big stretch to say Obama is a "true centrist". Obamacare isn't something a true centrist would "shove through" in the way in which Obama / Pelosi has.
Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn ""What exactly are you sourcing from the left that makes you think they are so in lock-step with the President like the right wingers were with Bush?"" I can't answer that. It was just my opinion. I hope that (and it seems like it based on the general reaction here) I'm very wrong. I need to do my homework before making generalized statements like that.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper You mean, you didn't like all of that promised "transparency" KF? As for the photos...I will fully admit that I want to see them as closure for me. Call me sick, so be it. But, I watched the planes hit, people jump and the towers fall. Yes, a photo of him dead would satisfy me. Is it in US interests to release them? I honestly don't think it matters. Those who hate us hate us. If you can convince a young person to strap a bomb to themselves without a picture of Bin Laden dead then it hardly matters if they see the picture or not. I really don't care that they sent him to the fishes. Did it need a 45 minute service to do it? No. In fact, if it was so important to TELL people that they buried him under proper Muslim conditions then why not show them that they did? I guess I find it hard to understand many of our reasons for doing this or not doing that. I'm imperfect...no doubt about it.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>and we even know where he was shot.<< And now we even know just how graphic it is. Apparently it forced his left-eye out of the socket and it was hanging down on his face, still partially attached. It blew part of his skull off and the front of his brain was exposed. I have to think that kind of gruesome reality factored into the White House's decision, along with other things. This isn't Hollywood, with a clean bullet hole and a trickle of blood from the wound.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Obamacare isn't something a true centrist would "shove through" in the way in which Obama / Pelosi has*** Actually, you are wrong. Most of "obamacare" (as you put it) was stuff the Republicans offered up in the 1990's as a compromise regarding "Hilarycare". A left wing solution would've been much better. President Obama went to the center and "pushed through" at least SOMETHING better than what America had going for it beforehand. And if you think that's extreme, you are not seeing the big picture.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Call me sick, so be it*** I wouldn't say so. A part of me wants to see it, too. BUT, I think restraint is called for here and I stand by the White House's decision on this one despite my wish for closure as well (I think I can deal with it, given the official record, even though perhaps a picture *might* somehow be helpful).
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Is it in US interests to release them? I honestly don't think it matters. Those who hate us hate us. If you can convince a young person to strap a bomb to themselves without a picture of Bin Laden dead then it hardly matters if they see the picture or not.<< Fair enough. I tend to think we look "bigger" in all this by not showing them, but appreciate your take on it. Graphic images of the other people killed in the raid have been released by The Guardian UK, so we'll see what, if any, affect that has.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Graphic images of the other people killed in the raid have been released by The Guardian UK, so we'll see what, if any, affect that has.<< Reuters published some as well. I'm not sure if they're the same ones or not. Maybe it's just me, but there is something jarring about the images. I'm not sure how to explain it and I really don't have a desire to revisit them. I've seen so many fake dead bodies and fake gunshots wounds courtesy of Hollywood, and so perhaps the stark contrast is what makes it different. And they are different.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I do like the fact that he received a Moe Green. Which again led to my Godfather scenario with Obama speaking that WH correspondents dinner. While that's not how it happened, you know the movie will portray it that way.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Jon Stewart joked that releasing the film of Kennedy being killed put an end to all the conspiracy theories. That alone is a compelling reason to just keep the photos put away.
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Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn ""Actually, you are wrong. Most of "obamacare" (as you put it) was stuff the Republicans offered up in the 1990's as a compromise regarding "Hilarycare". "" Actually I am not wrong. The way in which Obama and Pelosi tried to ram this through, oh no wait, DID in fact ram this through, tousands of pages with no time to review it in the Dem controlled house and senate, in the middle of the night... the PROCESS is as agregious as the content, and the fact that the majority of Americans didn't even want it. As for you saying it is the same thing GOP offered in the 90's is not accurate. If I am wrong, give me examples. The biggest problem with it is that it is designed to bankrupt private health insurance companies. Also, the fact that it is going to be funded in advance is very much out of bounds. To simply claim that its the same thing GOP wanted in the 90's is not at all accurate. ""And if you think that's extreme, you are not seeing the big picture."" I never said it was extreme, but it is most certainly left of center.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I know I keep expecting the President to say something like, "Does Barrack Obama have to choke a witch?"
Originally Posted By ecdc >>That alone is a compelling reason to just keep the photos put away.<< That's actually a great point. The airing of the Zapruder film in the 70s is what took the conspiracy from the fringes and into the mainstream, and now as many as 75% of Americans think Kennedy was killed as part of a conspiracy (he wasn't). The video does make it appear that Kennedy was shot from the front while watched in normal time (he wasn't). It has to be slowed down to realize he was shot from behind. 9/11, the most photographed event in human history, still has tons of conspiracy proponents. No doubt bin Laden photos would be poured over obsessively. "There's no way that bullet hole is the result of an American bullet, see the distinctive grooves right here!"
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Actually I am not wrong*** You are. Very much so. Right wing talking points like "ramming through" and all that other crap doesn't impress me in the slightest, because I'm aware of the truth of the matter.
Originally Posted By Kevin Flynn You see everyone wants to believe that they are normal, average, center, the standard. Most of us, by nature, think that we are right and those that disagree with our perspective, are by default wrong. We all have bias, flaws, imperfections, but it is far easier and quicker to see differences in others and view those differences as flaws. For example, "W is a monster" would be a great example.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The way in which Obama and Pelosi tried to ram this through, oh no wait, DID in fact ram this through, tousands of pages with no time to review it in the Dem controlled house and senate, in the middle of the night... the PROCESS is as agregious as the content, and the fact that the majority of Americans didn't even want it.<< We're seriously going to revisit this with our fake resident Obama supporter?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <<9/11, the most photographed event in human history, still has tons of conspiracy proponents.>> I post over at Box Office Mojo and in the Real Life not Reel Life section, the old DAR has been going at it with some members who are 9/11 Truthers. I pretty much called them loons and they came back with all you can do is saying we're crazy but that proves you have nothing. I replied with I have the creditbility of every sane person.
