Originally Posted By vbdad55 <If they've done damage, they're not peaceful, are they? Any damage done by the march in question? No? Didn't think so< I don't know- you said the media doing a piss poor job of reporting ? Also it doesn't have to start that way but it is where it usually ends up- especially if it occurs multiple times- human nature for people to want to get their point across. I can only tell you from experience it's not fun when your family gets dragged into it. again, you're fine with it- I am not.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I agree that moving into the private residences is a recipe for disaster. This is that tact that some vehement pro-lifers have taken, harassing doctors who perform abortions. I don't like that, and I don't like the idea of Occupy Wall Street folks doing the same thing. It shifts into a form of bullying and is more threatening. Keep the protests where they belong, where they can be visible and much safer for all concerned.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I don't agree with taking the protests to private residents. I have to though, after reading this morning that CEO compensation is up 28% this year, including being DOUBLE for those in the top 25%, I'm a whole lot more sympathetic to the Occupy folks than I was yesterday. Those at the top truly have no clue what it is like for the rest of us in America. You know... the 99%.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<CEO compensation is up 28% this year, including being DOUBLE for those in the top 25%>> You see statistics like this, and you just can't help sympathizing with the folks at OWS. It's absolutely incredible to me that these companies are apparently making more than enough money to give their CEOs huge bonuses and salaries, but the rest of us have to "tighten our belts" for the good of the country? It's nuts!! Frankly, we should all be outraged - but, of course, we're not. For some reason Americans have bought hook, line and sinker into the "religion" that Private Companies can always do what they want, and it's no one's business to tell them otherwise. Never mind that millions of Americans are suffering because these same companies, who apparently have vast wealth to give their CEOs, won't hire and invest in the American economy. Oh no, we're told, that's their right - you can't force them to invest in the country that actually gave them the ability to make all that wealth to begin with. And people actually believe that crap!! Sad, isn't it??
Originally Posted By vbdad55 thanks K2 and RT -- those are exactly my points. There is much more of a sense that ' we must do something' when it gets 'personal' - and it doesn't take much to push some people over the edge.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I'd extend this idea to the press camping out on people's front lawns as well as paparazzi.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 agreed- to a child in the house -- tons or press or tons of people --either one can be pretty scary I am going to imagine
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<So what would you do? Ban peaceable assembly? That worries me more. < <when it moves from a public venue ( Wall Street) to a private residential street I would surely be more concerned> Worry not. The NYPD didn't. I don't think some of you realize just what the area they marched through is like. This is not an area of individual single-family homes (in which case I'd be more with you). It's just row after row of massive apartment buildings. There are no front lawns. There are no lawns. There's no such thing as a single family home in Manhattan (except the Mayor's residence and the 17th century restored Dykman House on the tippy top of the island). They might as well have been filing past equally massive and faceless office towers. <many residential areas in urban locations have laws already on the books limiting numbers...the police use it to control gang activity etc.. I would enforce it if it was already in existence.> And yet, the NYPD - whose relationship with the people in the park has been sometimes testy - granted this permit without thinking twice. That tells you about all you need to know about the kind of march they thought it would be (and in fact, was). <<If they've done damage, they're not peaceful, are they? Any damage done by the march in question? No? Didn't think so<> <I don't know- you said the media doing a piss poor job of reporting ?. Come on, now. You know as well as I do that if there had been anything bad (certainly, any violence), that's EXACTLY what the media would have lead with. Even if it was isolated. They're LOOKING for the "exciting," and not the rather mundane filing past huge edifices that it was. <Also it doesn't have to start that way but it is where it usually ends up- especially if it occurs multiple times- human nature for people to want to get their point across.> And you get "usually" from... where? Assumptions and fears. Not from anything this group has done. <again, you're fine with it- I am not.> I'm fine with it, because what they've done is fine. If they ever do anything not fine, I won't be fine with it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "And you get "usually" from... where? Assumptions and fears. " history and tack records- a real good example of anti abortion groups was given to you earlier- you chose to ignore it beause somehow you know all these people in this group and they are just fine. I choose not to be that cavalier, or naive
Originally Posted By vbdad55 pople everywhere are on edge-- pushed to their wits end ( which is why these people are supposedly gathered to begin with ). Once you reach that point judgement becomes a lot less rational. Every day the news has someone who loses it..and goes off. To think there are not some of these people in the masses getting more riled up every day is turning a blind eye to a potential disaster. people are stressed to the max. I live in a very upscale area west of Chicago. We have had exactly 4 people in the last 3 months step in front of commuter trains in the town. Why - because they sadly also lost hope / touch etc..and behaved what most of us would say is less than rationally. at my age I do not remember a more stressful time for the general public. SOfor me to believe large masses of people can continue to meet - and then escalate ( and going to another area is escalation) -and no one is going to go over the top isn't possible.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I'll tell you what though, for everyones sake I hope you are right and I am wrong
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <"And you get "usually" from... where? Assumptions and fears. " <history and tack records-> Of this group? Didn't think so. And how about all the other civil rights or anti-war or you-name-it marchers who never caused any problems? I think they outnumber the ones who did by a pretty wide margin if you're really looking at history. <a real good example of anti abortion groups was given to you earlier- you chose to ignore it beause somehow you know all these people in this group and they are just fine. I choose not to be that cavalier, or naive> Don't put words in my mouth, or intent in my typing, please. Thanks. I didn't ignore it. I pointed out that this group wasn't doing the standing outside particular single home shouting things inside. They were filing past dozens of humongous apartment buildings in an NYPD-approved march. Or can you not see the difference?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Vbdad, I was taken on my first march before I can remember, and have participated in many over the years. Some have yielded some wonderful change such as the disability discrimination act here in the UK, as well as highlighting the misappropriation of funds by an organisation. Peaceful protest, as well as the press are all a part of a healthy democracy. And yet it always surprises me of how many Americans are trusting of the process. And yet it is an important part of our story.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 For all you College Football fans. <a href="http://occupyherbstreit.tumblr.com/" target="_blank">http://occupyherbstreit.tumblr.com/</a>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 "Or can you not see the difference?" as violence has started to break out across the globe in these marches- can you not see the risk ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Dave, I am not an all trusting in the system person by any stretch of the imagination. I participated in more than my share of protests back in my last few years of HS and first years of college against the Vietnam War my friend. I had a draft number of 33 and lost friends, realtives and teachers in an unjust conflict. SOme of those I 'lost' actually came back, but came back different people than when they left and never recovered. I helped organize a change in valedictorian speah at our HS graduation which was delivered by a very active ( unknown to admin) member of SDS. However, the goasl we wanted were much clearer, we did not protest in neighborhoods where people's homes were and we weren't naive enough to think there were not some nut jobs amongst the ranks that could be very scary as well as a few plants or infiltrators whose goal is was to discredit what we were doing. I know of the 'red squad' and what types of things really are in permanent records. I was not always a corporate employee, in fact most people who know me would tell you they didn't see that coming. So I speak from some experience, not a sidelines newspapaer reader. When this group actually establishes a leadership and some focused goals maybe I'll start to listen A guy in CHicago was on this morning who claimed to speak for the group here- he was from a group called 'People before Profit Alliance" A quick research on that shows it to be a political party in Ireland founded by the Socialist WOrkers Party. Either the group here is unaware their group name is already in use or more 'professional' protestors are now looking to stake their claim. I believe most people participating today are average Joe's who really want to make sure everyone is aware people are hurting..but there are plenty of well organized groups who will look to also take advantage of the crowds gathered and a anti wall astreet sentiment ... I am keeping an eye on it all..but not an naive eye, nor one willing to give a pass for things done that are risky and stupid.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "Or can you not see the difference?" "as violence has started to break out across the globe in these marches- can you not see the risk ?" Sure. Particularly as there are reports of provacateurs already. But there was always the risk of violence in the anti-war demos you talked about, and sometimes violence happened. And people tried to use that to discredit the whole movement. Deja vu. Me, I'd rather look at what actually happens than denounce a movement based on what might happen.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Here's a calculator from the Wall Street journal which shows where you rank on the 99% <a href="http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/" target="_blank">http://blogs.wsj.com/economics...are-you/</a>
