Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> DLR is the only of the four resorts yet to make an announcement. << They may have a small observation later next year, but they certainly haven't pre-listed or announced anything as has been done for the 3 other Disney parks. I'm not sure if this is because the DisCo. originally thought the distractions created by DCA and Downtown Disney would overwhelm a special commerative event at Disneyland. It's possible the company perceives the Anaheim operations as sort of the boonies, where unlike Disney World a full roster of events isn't necessary or warranted.
Originally Posted By WrongWay I think DL didn't hype the 100th bday bacause that was to be WDWs dig draw to bring in people after the mellinium thing passed. DL was supposed to be packing them in due to DCA.
Originally Posted By KanakiKid JIP: "Incredible. Just incredible. We kvetch and complain when Disney props up a year at the WDW Resort with a chintzy celebration of parades, exhibits and merchandise. Then, when Disneyland doesn't get that same or similar chintzy celebration, we kvetch and complain about that. Will the kvetching and complaining stop? No. Not until we get what we want, when we want, and at the level we feel it is warranted." Hey Jimbo, we're customers and fans, that's our right. I don't know about you, but I don't work for Disney, so I don't feel constrained about giving my "honest" feelings about what they don't do right. I'm sure there are thousands of folks here in SoCal that have some connection with Uncle Walt (ex employees of the Studios or DL). There are hundreds of thousands of ex kids who've grown up with DL and honoring the guy who gave so many so much enjoyment is not idle complaints. That's why not having some meaningful celebration is really stupid on Disney's part. It's like Walt Disney means nothing to current management. DLR management usually does a pretty nice job at putting on special events over the years and not doing something significant is not only stupid, but missing an opportunity to get more folks streaming through the gates with cash, checks and credit cards. If the WDW celebration didn't look "chintzy", I'll bet there would be fellow posters asking who'll be going down to WDW on Dec. 5th, like so many said about TDS's opening. Chintzy or glitzy, there's a significant number of paying Disney fans that really would spend beau coup bucks on any special event connect with Disney. Missing Walt's 100th is just another item in the TDA "dumb" column for 2001.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Hey Jimbo, we're customers and fans, that's our right. " If you don't like what they are selling, then stop being a customer. No one forces you to participate. It's rather difficult for me to understand how someone can be a "fan" when all they do is complain about how they dislike things. I think if people find stuff so unpleasant that they spend time doing little else but complain about the place, then there are many other things that someone can do to occupy their time that they will likely find more pleasant.
Originally Posted By SJHYM Jonvn, I bet a good psychologist or sociologist could do a great thesis on the emotional bond that people have on Disney. I have long contended that Disney is like a religion in the way that it has touched people in deep ways. I think that many people love Disney in deep ways that they dont fully understand even though they may dislike parts of what Disney does. I think people continue to go but complain because of their loyalty they feel for the organization. I guess that was also on of Walt's gifts to foster that kind of fan base. I think this would be a great topic somewhere else...the psychology of Disney.
Originally Posted By jonvn It just makes no sense to me. For example, people who were born fifteen years after Walt Disney died, worship the guy like a god, and then complain that the company doesn't do anything about him for his birthday, and are trying to hide him, or some such thing. Meanwhile, they know who he is somehow, and there's this big thing going on in Florida about it. But it's not enough. It's never enough. If it weren't for the corporation doting on its founder the way it has, they'd never know who he was either. Personally, I like Disney stuff, at least some of it. The parks are a lot of fun, so I enjoy reading and chatting about them. I have liked it for a long time, so I have a large amount of info stored up on it. Much of which I've forgotten at this point. I do really feel you are right, though. That somehow it has been swept up into a religion by some people. Those who quote Walt Disney as if he were the messiah, reveling in his wisdom even though it was filtered through a mostly friendly media and corporate PR machine. Because of this, I think, a lot of people have invented rules that a Disney park must be like in order for it to pass Confirmation. They must have a certain content, or they must have certain elements. There's a thread on here about how DCA should have had some kind of Main Street, as if to deviate in any way from the prescribed course of what has gone before is some sort of heresy. If in some way, the park does not follow a set of criteria it's not a "Disney park" even though Disney built the thing. "I think people continue to go but complain because of their loyalty they feel for the organization." I don't really know what the loyalty means that you say some folks have. To who? To what? The loyalty I see being expressed are people's loyalty to their own personal preferences. The organization engenders no loyalty. In fact, it is often derided. The parks are lousy, the films are lousy, the business models are lousy, and so on. I have to question what exactly these people are loyal to. To Walt Disney? A guy nobody here knew or really understands. To corporate history? Most people who talk about these things know next to nothing about it. Most of the comments are things that just aren't true, yet bolster the religiosity of the writer. Just concepts made up on the fly to give people a reason to be angry. Are they loyal to corporate PR, which for years has been telling people how great they are, and so they believe it hook, line, and sinker? And when they become adults they see it's not always the way things were said they were? Another thing it seems that people are loyal to here is their happy childhood memories of going to these theme parks. I can understand that. I have a lot of good memories there. But there is an important element missing here. Seeing something through the eyes of a child is a lot different than seeing them through the eyes of an adult. I see this a lot too, when people talk about how great America Sings was because they first saw it when they were 8. I first saw it as an adult, and it was not great. It wasn't really that good. But people speak fondly of it because they saw it when they were a kid, and it made them happy then. The memories you have in childhood are the memories that are best. Savor them, and appreciate them, but don't expect to react the same way when you're 25 as you did when you were 7. If you can appreciate these things, that's great. If you can appreciate the happiness and memories that these sorts of experiences can have on youngsters, then you're in the right area. Just don't get mad that the Monsters Inc. show at DCA is not the latest staging of Beowulf. It's not supposed to be, and these shows never were anything more than theme park entertainment. The fury with which some people post about this stuff is really distrubing a lot of times. Hundreds of posts about how they dislike something, made to people who are trying to enjoy it and share their fun. I mean hundreds of posts about something they DON'T LIKE. I don't know if this will get by on here but I just don't think it's very healthy for a religion to be made up about theme parks, or that a person should be deified, or the insisting on telling others how bad things are. There is a spectrum here. In the middle are people who like some things, dislike others, and enjoy for what there is to enjoy. On one end, you have fans who like it all. I can understand that these people would want to talk about this stuff. I do question some of their tastes, though. But on the other extreme, you have people who simply hate everything. To me, that makes no sense. But before you get to the point where you hate everything (and there are some around, as most people know) you move across the spectrum to more and more things you dislike. You don't have to dislike 100% of something. If you dislike enough of it that it's just not worth your time, then that's something to consider regarding how you are spending your time. If 80% of your time is devoted to complaining, then that's 80% of your time you could be doing something else that you may find a bit more worthwhile. The fact is that I don't like everything Disney produces, either. I don't like every aspect of DCA, I don't like the movies, I don't like the toilet humor found in a lot of films, and so on. I could sit here and post forever on the things I dislike. There is no point to it. But, whatever makes people happy, I guess. Some people think they are a "fan" and that gives them a right to complain about everything. I just don't know what they are a fan of. And why if they are a fan of a certain small aspect, that they just don't be involved with that when other things are not built in the exact same mode.
Originally Posted By WrongWay If people didn't feel brand loyalty, then advertisement supported businesses would be in a big world of hurt. Advertisement is all about brand recognition and creating brand loyalty. For me, I bought the whole Disney Magic advertisement thing. The idea of getting to have cool adventures, in exotic locations, in a fantastic environment, is really exciting to me. That is what I travel thousands of miles and spend thousands of dollars for. So, when Disney builds a new kind of park, with off-the-shelf experiences, in mundane themes, in an environment that feels designed to maximize profits while limiting costs, I'm disappointed. Forgive me for discussing how my favorite brand, that I'm most loyal to, has taken a turn for the worse. Forgive me for trying to express my feelings to those that think a cleaner Six Flags is exactly what DLR needed. Forgive me thinking the company is going in a direction that will destroy the loyalty that so many have for such a traditionally great, but becoming ordinary, product.
Originally Posted By woody >>The organization engenders no loyalty. In fact, it is often derided. True. >>The parks are lousy, the films are lousy, the business models are lousy, and so on. While the organization cannot be relied on, the products (parks, films) are important. When both fail, you have to worry. Usually, Disney has the best of both worlds. Unfortunately, both are failing. People used to want to work there, not anymore. Its just a job, not a career. People still like their products, but not at the same intensity as before.
Originally Posted By jonvn "If people didn't feel brand loyalty" This isn't brand loyalty. Always buying Heinz ketchup instead of Hunt's is brand loyalty. This is religiosity. "The idea of getting to have cool adventures, in exotic locations, in a fantastic environment, is really exciting to me." I'm glad to hear it (again). However, you are not talking about fantastic or exotic things. You are talking about theme parks. Disney theme parks. Disney theme parks offer certains sorts of entertainments that cross a wide spectrum of styles. You seem to prefer one style. That is your right. Other people, however, have other ideas. Your ideas are not the ones that are right or correct. I personally prefer that Disney builds different kinds of parks for different purposes. You are completely free to disagree, and you are completely free to NOT GO to those parks that do not suit your personal requirements. "So, when Disney builds a new kind of park, with off-the-shelf experiences, in mundane themes, in an environment that feels designed to maximize profits while limiting costs, I'm disappointed." No. When Disney builds a park with things you personally don't like, then you feel disappointed. "Forgive me for trying to express my feelings to those that think a cleaner Six Flags is exactly what DLR needed. " Since this is not what they have tried to do, there is no reason to forgive you on this. What I do forgive you on, though, is the fact that this has been explained to you many times now, yet you do not seem to be willing or able to see this from any other viewpoint other than your own. "Forgive me thinking the company is going in a direction that will destroy the loyalty that so many have for such a traditionally great, but becoming ordinary, product." If the company is going in a direction that will damage it, then that's their problem. However, not everyone agrees that they are doing such a thing, and some would say that DCA is in many ways a step in a good direction, and is very entertaining. But if I personally felt the company was going down in flames, I'd feel a bit sad, but it certainly wouldn't be the end of the world. If Disney closed up shop tomorrow, life would still go on. To realize how odd this seems to other people, think about replacing Disney with another company name, like Archer Daniel Midlands. "Oh no! Archer Daniel Midlands is not properly farming their corn crop this year! They're just not the same foodbasket to the world that they used to be!" It makes no sense that people would not be MORE concerned about Archer Daniel Midlands, because they make the food people eat. But no one is going around talking about their internal management structure. No one is going about concerned that their every move may be THE LAST STRAW. Why? Because it's just a company. It has its good times and its bad. They sell things that everyone uses and needs to use and wants to use. Disney is a very similar thing. It has more of a brand recognition factor, but otherwise it operates in the EXACT SAME WAY as any other company does. The only difference is that Disney is a media company and therefore has a better known name. But ADM produces things that make us all happy and healthy, too. <a href="http://www.admworld.com/" target="_blank">http://www.admworld.com/</a> The point in all this is that Disney is there to entertain you, not make you worry about their budgets, corporate machinations, or any other such thing. You either enjoy what they produce, or you take a pass on it. That's how corporations work, and Disney is a corporation just like any other, and it has always been that way. Always--no matter what corporate PR stuff you've been willing to believe.
Originally Posted By woody >> If Disney closed up shop tomorrow, life would still go on. I think you're defending Disney even though you profess no loyalty for them. >>The point in all this is that Disney is there to entertain you If you want to talk business, let's be consistent. Disney is there to make money, not engender loyalties or try to entertain you with mundane parks like DCA. It's just a corporation after all.
Originally Posted By WrongWay "The point in all this is that Disney is there to entertain you, not make you worry about their budgets, corporate machinations, or any other such thing." Disney gets the good with the bad. I go to their movies, even when the reveiws aren't that good. Why? Interest in the company. I go to their parks. Why? Interest in the company. If they give us something below standards, we're going to try figure out why. Besides, i've thought of buying stock in the company. This has led me to study how they do business and where the company is going. According to Eisner, he intends to use the cash flow generated by the parks and classic video/dvd sales to buils a TV conglomerate. He is milking the product I love, for every penny he can get, not to reinvest and give me morte of what I love, but to build a TV network that shows Uncut "Saving Private Ryan" in Sunday prime time, and gets in trouble with the FCC for showing Victoria Secrets fashion shows. The company needs to take a long look on where it's money comes from, and work on keeping those people happy. I've tired of getting the middle finger from the company I love most. I'm to the point where I'm about ready to start giving them the middle finger back.
Originally Posted By reddon “If you don't like what they are selling, then stop being a customer. No one forces you to participate. It's rather difficult for me to understand how someone can be a "fan" when all they do is complain about how they dislike things. I think if people find stuff so unpleasant that they spend time doing little else but complain about the place, then there are many other things that someone can do to occupy their time that they will likely find more pleasant” The same thing can be said about these posts. No one forces you to participate in this thread, this discussion board or even visit this site. Post and let post. Even on this board, there are many “sunny” threads and sections. And I will say this, if not for some of you that feel compelled to respond to every single “whining” post, these “negative” threads will not have nearly as many posts. Someone started “I Love DCA” thread and where is it now? I said it once and will say it again. This is a Disney fan site. Should we be surprised that the more passionate fans tend to be more picky and vocal? On SW fan sites, I’ve seen nastier posts about Jar Jar. Probably some of these people did start going to the parks less. But besides stop paying and writing complains letter like WrongWay did, what else can a fan do? Not much. That’s what these message boards are for, a venue to vent.
Originally Posted By WrongWay "It's rather difficult for me to understand how someone can be a "fan" when all they do is complain about how they dislike things." Frankly, I don't really care if you understand it. I love Disney, I really don't like much of what they have done lately, and I'm going to continue to spend time talking about how disappointed I am with a company that could do so much better.
Originally Posted By driftwood714 >>> Frankly, I don't really care if you understand it. I love Disney <<< It seems that most of your posts don't seem to indicate that.
Originally Posted By WrongWay ">>> Frankly, I don't really care if you understand it. I love Disney <<< It seems that most of your posts don't seem to indicate that." Maybe because you intentionally left off: "I really don't like much of what they have done lately"
Originally Posted By driftwood714 >>> Maybe because you intentionally left off: "I really don't like much of what they have done lately <<< I actually didn't leave that off intentially. My original quote of yours was sufficient. Dont try to second guess me, either. I find that insulting. Regardless, with or without your entire quote, my response still stands. You posts don't indicate you love Disney.
Originally Posted By tangaroa "If you don't like what they are selling, then stop being a customer. No one forces you to participate." It's funny everytime someone says this, almost as though the problem lies completely with those who complain. I sometimes wonder if the people who say this are aware that attendance at Disneyland has been down for almost 4 straight years now. In fact the whole point of the article posted here was how Anaheim didn't see a giant boom in business from DCA. So it's obvious people aren't coming. Now if you don't mind, I'd like to continue discussing WHY they aren't coming, without being told how I'm suppose to think... thank you.
Originally Posted By WrongWay "You posts don't indicate you love Disney." Would those be the posts where I say that Disney's traditional standards are so much higher than any other company's, that a park to other company's standards is really disappointing? Or is it the posts where I heap praise on Disney Magic, that make it seem I hate Disney? Other than saying that I think Disney really messed up on DCA, and is heading in the worng direction lately, just what is it that I say/said that makes you think I hate Disney?
Originally Posted By WrongWay "Now if you don't mind, I'd like to continue discussing WHY they aren't coming, without being told how I'm suppose to think... thank you." Or being told I should talk about something I don't like. It feels too much like I'm being told to sit down and shut up. There is no surer way to get me to speak up, then to tell me to shut up. Well, except to tell me I'm wrong.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I go to their movies, even when the reveiws aren't that good." That's kind of your problem, then, isn't it. I find that to be a completely strange thing to do. Go to a movie you hear is bad, and then be upset that it is bad. I go to movies because I hope to be entertained. I go to theme parks in hopes to be entertained. Because I am entertained, I find the subject matter interesting. However, if it came to be that I find something not entertaining, I don't participate in it. For example, I didn't see Spy Kids when it came out, or most of the Disney films. They aren't of interest to me. I could sit here and complain about how these films are not what I personally expect, and therefore the whole company is going down the tubes, but I don't. I rather concentrate on those aspects that I find enjoyable. Why do I do this? Because it is unrealistic in the extreme to think that everything that any company does is going to be exactly what I want, all the time. They are trying to appeal to a broad mass of customers, not just me. And in knowing this comes the understanding that some of the things they do I will like, some I will dislike, and some I will be utterly indifferent to. This does not upset me, and it is normal behavior. "The same thing can be said about these posts. No one forces you to participate in this thread, this discussion board or even visit this site. Post and let post." Actually, no it can't. In trying to have a pleasant conversation here, I've found it very difficult to do so without a "DCA Sucks" bomb tossed in. It's ok, though. And if you want a "post and let post" attitude, then I suggest you can start with letting me respond to some of these ridiculous comments that get floated about. Or does post and let post only apply to a certain set of beliefs? If people want to post how awful DCA is, I should be able to post how I'm sick of hearing it. "But besides stop paying and writing complains letter like WrongWay did, what else can a fan do?" Well, they could actually go ahead and SEND the letters they write. But what can a fan do other than write notes to Disney and stop giving them their money? Nothing. There is nothing you can do. So to expend a large amount of time being frazzled because the cement was painted just the wrong shade of pink isn't going to end up doing a whole lot of good. "Frankly, I don't really care if you understand it. I love Disney, " I'm sure you do. You express it very well....um...how, exactly? By going to bad Disney movies? To me, not only does it appear you don't like Disney things, but that you are actively going out of your way to involve yourself in Disney related things you don't like. Why, I have no idea. But there are a lot of Disney things I don't like, either. I just don't dwell on them. It's hard for me to accept your "love" of Disney when all I see are negative statements and such. I assume you care about what I think, despite your protestations, because otherwise you would not be telling me what you have. No offense. It doesn't matter if you hate them, love them, or whatever. People will formulate their opinions based on what they see, and not what you tell them to see. What I see is that you don't like DCA, Epcot, or AK. That's fine. But if you don't like these things, then I have to wonder what you're bothering for. If you like MK types of parks, that's great. However, for those of us who appreciate other kinds of parks, these other places offer different sorts of theme park entertainments. I'm sorry you don't understand that other people have different tastes than you. It would then make it a lot easier to see that not everything has to conform to your personal belief system.
