Originally Posted By DL-2000 ::Goes to show differences in opinion - I absolutely love King Triton's Carrousel, but King Arthur's Carrousel doesn't do all that much for me.:: Purely out of curiousity, what is it about King Triton's that "does it" for you. Just wondering.
Originally Posted By cstephens Pretty much everything, actually - the ride itself and the location. I love marine animals, so the different choices of blue whale, dolphin, sea otter, sea lion, and the other fish and sea horse are most of the appeal, especially with them being in different colors. A teal sea otter is a bit funky but very fun too. I love playing with whatever I'm riding on as well as whatever my husband and friends are riding on. I also like the design of this carrousel better because not being extremely tall, I have trouble sometimes on King Arthur's Carrousel where the horse I'm riding, which was lower when I got on it, stops higher, and I have a hard time getting down. On King Triton's, it stops where it started from. And, I love the view from the carrousel, but then, I also love Paradise Pier, day or night. I love being able to hear the screams of people on Screamin and the roar of the trains, and seeing the water on the lagoon, and the miriad of other views available from the carrousel. /cs
Originally Posted By DL-2000 ::A teal sea otter is a bit funky but very fun too.:: I rode on the sea otter, too! The sea animals are probably the best part of the Carousel. They are very unique and well designed.
Originally Posted By Nautilus >>Walt Disney built his theme park where he built it because the Stanford Research Institute told him that the area was going to be the Southern California population center in 10 years.<< You are correct. He also had many specifications, including that the property be located away from the shore and outside of LA. >>there already were amusement parks around that were not near the beach.<< Correct again. and Walt wanted his park to be among that type (Without the ever so prominent farris wheel). Though he wanted his park to be much better known, like the more famous seaside varity. >>He didn't ingeniously avoid anything. He filled his park with these types of rides from day one. He continued to fill his park with these sorts of rides until his death.<< Even before the parks construction began there was a preconceived notion among journalists (and others) that Walts park would be like any other. Amusement park owners "knew" that a Disney park would have to be like any other in order to survive. Yet Walt managed to convince much of the general public that his park was going to be different by doing without some of the more standerd amusement park trappings of the day. He built a park that had many standard ride systems, But presented them in a way that convinced the public at large that the park was much more than the sum of it's parts. So much so, that to this day people are still convinced that Disney doesn't do "carney" rides. It was pure genius I tell's ya. >>>. I think the problem here is that people are a bit too willing to swallow long time corporate marketing nonsense, which put an unrealistic twist on things especially when people do not know or are willing to ignore the facts of the matter.<<< That last quote was included in the response to my post for reasons I'm not aware of, as it did not at all relate to my post. But, okay....Perhaps you misunderstood.
Originally Posted By woody >>>Fab's last point is correct that there needs to be a good mixture of A-D type rides along with E-Ticket rides. And DCA has a good mixture of those types of rides mixed in with some E-Ticket rides allowing most everyone to enjoy a variety of experiences and not just a one type fits all mentality. At DCA, the "variety" largely consists of spinners, movies, and exhibits. Not a good mixture to guarrantee repeat business. DCA needs "rides" of the Disney quality type, not a corporate excuse for factory tours, clones, and off-the-shelf barebones carnval rides.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh "off-the-shelf barebones carnval rides." Over 260 posts, and some people still label DCA's ride this way.
Originally Posted By AgentLaRue Disneyland has a distinct advantage in re-theming "off-the-shelf" ride systems by relying on the emotions and goodwill associated with the films and characters that the attractions are based on. In no small part, people enjoy these attractions because they re-create and celebrate characters and scenes that draw from a pre-existing positive emotional base. Take Dumbo, for example. By any objective view, this is a "spinner" attraction, only it has the cute Dumbo ride vehicles. What "story" does this attraction have apart from using the Dumbo characters? Not much, other than that you are flying on Dumbo. You could be flying on airplanes, for that matter. The fantasyland attractions also profit from this effect. Rarely are these attractions criticized for featuring "cardboard cutouts" or basic blacklight techniques (common criticisms of Superstar Limo). That these cutouts are of Pinocchio, Snow White, etc., is a major factor in that reaction. We all re-live experiences associated with the characters and films in what could otherwise be seen as fairly typical darkride fare. One of challenges DCA faced was generating positive emotional experiences from attraction themes that, for the most part, did not have the advantage of theming based on an established product line. There were no cute characters to draw children to the park, and only a few of the attractions attempted to capitalize on proven commodities. I'm not necessarily saying that all of DCA's attractions would have been exceptional had they been themed to proven commodities, but I do believe that it is an element worthy of consideration and a significant factor in explaining why the Disneyland "off-the-shelf" ride systems are perceived differently than those at DCA and other parks that do not utilize theming from established products with positive emotional responses.
Originally Posted By woody >>Over 260 posts, and some people still label DCA's ride this way. Since the 260 posts, I must point out that DCA's rides are still the same. >>I do believe that it is an element worthy of consideration and a significant factor ... I agree.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh DCA's rides are no more "off the shelf carnival rides" than Disneyland's.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<"off-the-shelf barebones carnval rides." Over 260 posts, and some people still label DCA's ride this way.>> The rides in Paradise Pier are illiterate from the standpoint that they do not tell a narrative individually as the rides / attractions do in Disneyland. As a collection of rides in PP, yes they are rem1nisent of the bygone seaside amusement parks of California and elsewhere. And that is fine for what the developers of DCA were trying to achieve. But whether or not the local tourist trade is going to embrace the Paradise Pier theme as they do Fantasyland ,for example, is another question entirely. << Amusement park owners "knew" that a Disney park would have to be like any other in order to survive. Yet Walt managed to convince much of the general public that his park was going to be different by doing without some of the more standerd amusement park trappings of the day.>> Two pieces of the puzzle fell into place for Walt Disney to be as successful with Disneyland as he was. First, his track record for film making was stellar. The public loved his approach to character development. Second was his immediate take to the newest medium, television and his preception of its inherient power to suade its viewers. He sold Disneyland and all of its unique characteristics to the viewing public early and often. Even he probobly didn't expect the meteoric response to Disneyland when it opened. California Adventure was approached with a different attitude than the other parks. I can only imagine that concerns for the staleness of their brand was weighting decisions on the style of the second gate. Good or bad, there are many projects in the park that have missed the mark for park guests. And these are being addressed at this time. The park is becoming more of a precieved Disney park with classic character introduction in more and more areas. This is really what the public wants. The thrill / carney ride isn't the worst concept, but lacking a true Disney theme is. Hip and edgy can include Disney characters and still be a lot of thrills.
Originally Posted By WrongWay Rockin' RollerCoaster is an off-the-shelf coaster, that uses little more than cheap cut-outs and the old black light tricks as theming. Rockin' RollerCoaster also has a very detailed queue, tells a story, and gives you things you can't find anywhere else. What I personally enjoyed most about Rockin' RC was the way it emmersed me in an attraction. I don't typically enjoy hard rock music, but Aerosmith really fits the idea of a runaway limo ride trough the LA freeways. Somehow, I think a coaster themed to a wooden coater in an amusement park isn't going to feel all that different than the dozens of coaster I've ridden in amusement parks. I'll let you all know my feelings about Soarin' next week. ;-)
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "The rides in Paradise Pier are illiterate from the standpoint that they do not tell a narrative individually as the rides / attractions do in Disneyland." Like the Tea Cups? Or Dumbo? Or anoy of the Main Street vehicles? Or the Carousel? Or...
Originally Posted By MackAttack But Yookeroo, you are missing the point. Those DL carny rides somehow tell a story. What, I'm not sure, but they do. Maybe some of the storytellers here on this thread can share with us each the stories from the different DL carny rides. After all, they seem to be great storytellers here on this thread. The double standards here seem to be quite common with regards to the two parks. How odd.
Originally Posted By WrongWay TeaCups and Dumbo are surrounded by a fantasy castle. They bring forth wonderful childhood memories of fantastic stories. The CA Adventure pier rides are the theming. It is intended to be a cleaner version of those cheap, unthemed, over crowded amusement piers. Hmmmm. I see no double standard. Fantasyland is themed to fond childhood memories, and the pier is themed to what we go to Disney to avoid.
Originally Posted By cstephens WrongWay wrote: > TeaCups and Dumbo are surrounded by a fantasy castle. They bring forth wonderful childhood memories of fantastic stories. Teacups, Dumbo and all of the other Fantasyland rides are dependent on pre-existing properties. Without those stories, the rides wouldn't exist. If you've never read those stories, the rides don't mean as much. If you don't know the story of Mr. Toad, the ride wouldn't make any more sense than Superstar Limo does (and I love Superstar Limo). /cs
Originally Posted By woody >>Hmmmm. I see no double standard. Fantasyland is themed to fond childhood memories, and the pier is themed to what we go to Disney to avoid. You forget, there is a story to tell on the Paradise Pier carny rides. One day, a bunch of Disney executives went on a retreat. They wanted to create a magical place for their guests. They thought and thought and dreamed less and less. "How about a park about California?" they cried. Thus Paradise Pier carny rides because reality.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "TeaCups and Dumbo are surrounded by a fantasy castle. They bring forth wonderful childhood memories of fantastic stories. " That's not the exactly same as telling a story. And I'm still waiting for someone to tell me what story the Carousel & Main Street Vehicles are supposed to be telling. Or how about the Autopia? That's a very compelling narrative. "The double standards here seem to be quite common with regards to the two parks." This is why it's hard to take the DCA bashers seriously. I can't imagine Disney does.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<Without those stories, the rides wouldn't exist. If you've never read those stories, the rides don't mean as much. If you don't know the story of Mr. Toad, the ride wouldn't make any more sense than Superstar Limo does (and I love Superstar Limo).>> Even on the level of not identifying with the characters of Wind and the Willows, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride tells a linear story. The guests take a perilous ride through the British countryside, escape from the law, run head on into a locomotive and end up in the netherworld. It is a very zaney and quick dark ride adventure. But most of all DL guests of all ages and ethnicity still enjoy this endearing attraction. Superstar Limo has not gotten an overwhelming positive response and hopefully that will change with the addition of Goofy and the gang. Again it simply comes down to what the general concensus of guests like and they vote first with gate admission and then with their individual comments of likes and dislikes. Superstar Limo isn't a bad concept, but its execution left guests cold. As far as the spinners at DL, it is the recognizable theming that makes them work. How do you further the ability to immerse guests into an animated feature? The dark rides do that very well. As for the spinners, they take on the character of their movie through use of visuals, sound and kinetics. The appropriate kinetics were decided on to fit the story. Dumbo and Alice's Tea Cups have very different kinetics but are appropriate with each story. Dumbo is pleasent flying while Tea Cups is over the top wacky barfing. And don't underestimate their ability to tell great visual stories for the guests who choose not to ride them as well. Casey Junior Circus Train is another good example why a kiddie type ride works so well in the Fantasyland theme. The guests don't just sit in a train, they choose which circus train car to sit in. Whether its the lion cage, monkey cage or caboose the theming is timeless. Add to all that the recorded ride spiel and the "I think I can" hill and it puts the guests into the world of Dumbo perfectly. The Main Street Vehicles are brought up now and then as illiterate rides. Yes and no would be my answer. They don't necessarily tell an individual story, but collecctively they very much support the Turn of the Century Middle America theme of Main Street USA. It is much the same way with the rides of Paridise Pier, individually they don't tell a narrative story, collectively they ligitimize the seaside amusement park theming.
Originally Posted By WrongWay To me, the Main Street Vehicles aren't as much an attraction as they are there to complete the theming. In essence, they are there mostly to look good. In a way, it seems that the pier is there mostly to look good. Most times I read about people praising the pier, they are doing so becuase it looks so good from the Cove Bar. Perhaps Disney needs to admit that the Pier is more about looking good from a distance that actually being almost half the attractions in the park. If the Main Street Vehicles are counted as 1 attraction, perhaps Paradise Pier should start being considered one attraction.
Originally Posted By cstephens WrongWay wrote: > If the Main Street Vehicles are counted as 1 attraction, perhaps Paradise Pier should start being considered one attraction. Yeah, ok, whatever. /cs
