Originally Posted By driftwood714 Ok. Here's a brillant idea. Since all your PP bashers need to have a "Disney connection" with all the rides. Why not make Paradise Pier rethemed to Pinnochio? It would merge the two idea better and there would be a central theme, but cleaner than the evilness in the story.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo Keep twisting & turning. But the fact remains that Disneyland had a bunch of rides, some put in by the deity himself, that don't tell any sort of story. It's just another criticism of DCA based on specious reasoning.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh I think there are valid reasons for disliking Paradise Pier, and I agree with some of them. I also think crapshoot's last two posts had a lot of truth to them. Could Disney have done better than Paradise Pier? Yes. Even though I'd prefer something else, will I still enjoy PP when I'm at DCA? Yes. Does the presence of PP ruin DCA? No.
Originally Posted By tangaroa "Ok. Here's a brillant idea. Since all your PP bashers need to have a "Disney connection" with all the rides. Why not make Paradise Pier rethemed to Pinnochio? It would merge the two idea better and there would be a central theme, but cleaner than the evilness in the story." That wouldn't work. If you were going to theme it to Pinocchio you would have to make the place dirty and seedy and just plain bad. I think this argument is just getting more and more pointless. People are trying to justify the existance of the carny rides in Disneyland because they have come to accept those rides as being *part* of Disneyland. And why is that? Because they've been there, for AGES. Longer than I have evern been alive. It's hard to imagine a Disneyland without Dumbo. Then when these same people go over to DCA, and view Paradise Pier without their nostalgia glasses on, they see those rides for what they really are. Cheap, off the shelf, carnival rides. I've said it before, I shall say it again. I personally find the rides in Paradise Pier to be boring and completely unentertaining. Over at Disneyland I find Dumbo and the Teacups, completey boring and unentertaining. The difference though, is in how long they've been there. Disneyland's rides were built before I was even born, and the Paradise Pier rides were built just yesterday. The Disneyland rides have been part of our history for 40 yaers, and the Paradise Pier rides were more interesting when so and so rode them last week in Texas. It's all relative. Here's an interesting idea. I want to see what the DCA supporters would label the Paradise Pier rides... A thru E ticket wise...
Originally Posted By WrongWay Keep twisting & turning. But the fact remains that every Disneyland attraction was themed to a far off place or time and tried to give you something you couldn't find everywhere else. It's just another defense of DCA based on specious reasoning. DCA is themed to here and now, making it quite generic in the theme park industry. Disneyland is fancyfull and adventurous and historic and futuristic. Disneyland was built to be the best, and DCA was built to be the most profitable.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh "I think this argument is just getting more and more pointless." Probably because you keep repeating the same opinion as fact and won't accept that others don't share it. The Paradise Pier rides are not, "Cheap, off the shelf, carnival rides" anymore than many of those at Disneyland are. Even if they were, a few such rides don't ruin a theme park. "I want to see what the DCA supporters would label the Paradise Pier rides... A thru E ticket wise..." So you can ridicule our choices?
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Then when these same people go over to DCA, and view Paradise Pier without their nostalgia glasses on, they see those rides for what they really are. Cheap, off the shelf, carnival rides." But they aren't "cheap, off the shelf, carnival rides". Calling them that is just a lie. I just love the argument that so-called carny rides are acceptable in DL because they're old (old because Walt put them in) and only work because of nostalgia....of course nostalgia has nothing to do with Paradise Pier.
Originally Posted By crapshoot And for the record, I don't consider this as bashing DCA. More, I feel it is trying to understand what it is about DCA that the general public preceives in their experiences. Comparing DL to DCA is what the public does. And that is the best way for us to make some sort of educated comparison as well. Maybe DCA was to be nothing like DL in the planners minds. But to what end was the public considered in the planning strategy? Which concepts work better than others is going to be how DCA will be addressed in the future. Further I don't feel that DCA is a failure to this point. And I know that it will only improve in a way that the general public will visit it more and more in the future.
Originally Posted By driftwood714 I'm sure once they add a dark ride or two to the Paradise Pier area of the park, people will be a little happier with it. More than likely a few of these rides are going to change over the years, if not taken out at all. People, arguing here doesn't make any difference to the company. If you really feel this way, write a letter to Disneyland itself. That's the only way they are going to know that people don't like Paradise Pier, because otherwise most guests love it.
Originally Posted By JohnS3 This entire thread reminds me of similar conversations a few decades ago when Disney started making non-G-rated movies via Touchstone. Many people liked that the Disney touch could now be found in movies that were a bit more sophisticated and for older audiences. Others argued that these were not true Disney films and the company had no business offering anything different from what they had offered in the past. Different ain't necessarily bad. it's just different. Maybe DCA is just the "Touchstone" of theme parks and it'll take some time to get used to that.
Originally Posted By woody >>Does the presence of PP ruin DCA? No. That's because by the time you get there, your expectations are already very low. >>But they aren't "cheap, off the shelf, carnival rides". Calling them that is just a lie. For all we know, they spent a lot of money on those cheap looking carny rides and the matching restaurants and stores. >>"I want to see what the DCA supporters would label the Paradise Pier rides... A thru E ticket wise..." >>So you can ridicule our choices? In my opinion, DCA is the right grading system. Lots of D, C, and A ticket attractions.
Originally Posted By AgentLaRue "Since all your PP bashers need to have a "Disney connection" with all the rides. Why not make Paradise Pier rethemed to Pinnochio?" I don't believe that all DCA attractions need or should have a Disney connection, nor do I believe it is DCA bashing to observe that similar rides at DL are perceived better by many by invoking other cherished properties. But there are likely reasons why spinners aren't regarded as spinners at DL and discussing those issues seems to be appropriate. Personally, I liked a lot of DCA and I do not consider it bashing of the park to recognize that my views may not be held by the majority of visitors to the resort. I also find it interesting to try to understand why the public reaction to the park has not been as favorable as desired. DCA discussions too often, in my humble opinion, degrade into such starkly polarized positions that objective observations are too conveniently characterized as "bashing" or "defending", as if it is an imperative that a label be placed on a particular view. That's too bad. Reminds me of the whole liberal/conservative political categorizing that omits many people who have varying viewpoints which cannot be so easily categorized. Oh well, back to the flaming.
Originally Posted By MackAttack >>Does the presence of PP ruin DCA? No. That's because by the time you get there, your expectations are already very low. >>But they aren't "cheap, off the shelf, carnival rides". Calling them that is just a lie. For all we know, they spent a lot of money on those cheap looking carny rides and the matching restaurants and stores. >>"I want to see what the DCA supporters would label the Paradise Pier rides... A thru E ticket wise..." >>So you can ridicule our choices? In my opinion, DCA is the right grading system. Lots of D, C, and A ticket attractions. Your comments above Woody shows just how disrespectful you are to others who don't share your OPINION. Yes, that is right Woody, it is only your OPINION and not any fact about the Paradise Pier attractions. The proof here if those "cheap carny rides" are appropriate and fulfill a connection and story to the land is by hanging out in PP and watching the reactions of the guests getting on or off the rides. I rarely can find one person unhappy in PP. Most everyone seems happy and laughing. Guests seem to be simply having a great time riding the PP rides. It really doesn't matter what we all think here. What matters if the mass audience is enjoying themselves on the rides and guess what, they are and that is all the proof I need. Not from a bunch of Disney purists who think they know what makes the best Disney park and what doesn't. For those who don't like PP or just the rides in PP, fine you don't like them. I respect that, but respect those who do like them and see how they greatly connect to the story of the seaside amusement park that resides in Paradise Pier.
Originally Posted By tangaroa Want to buy a swing ride? Want to buy a carousel: <a href="http://www.rides.com/products.html" target="_blank">http://www.rides.com/products. html</a> Anyone want to buy their very own Maliboomer?: <a href="http://www.s-spower.com/rides/ridesbody.html" target="_blank">http://www.s-spower.com/rides/ ridesbody.html</a> From the S&S website: "From the people at S&S Power come the most thrilling vertical amusement rides in the world! These rides: Are inexpensive to operate Fit into small areas Are low maintenance Are highly visible Are loved by all who ride them Are major amusement rides at very affordable prices." If you keep on reading you can see the part where they try to cinvince potential buyers how great it is to not rely on "spin and barf" rides for thrills. And they're paying some Imagineer 80,000 a year to design a ferris wheel?
Originally Posted By woody My comments are my opinion. In fact, my last line stated that very clearly. If you like PP, I won't try to convince you to hate it. My comments should not be construed as disrespect for others. It is plainly wrong to say that because the contrary opinion will always be considered disrespectful.
Originally Posted By woody This is the perfect ride for DCA: The Inverter. <a href="http://www.rides.com/inverter_dbhome.html" target="_blank">http://www.rides.com/inverter_ dbhome.html</a> Take a look. Thanks Tangaroa for the link.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh "Want to buy a swing ride? . . . Anyone want to buy their very own Maliboomer?" Where are the prices? And can I get a bulk discount? "And they're paying some Imagineer 80,000 a year to design a ferris wheel?" The Sun Wheel is not a ferris wheel.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<What matters if the mass audience is enjoying themselves on the rides and guess what, they are and that is all the proof I need. Not from a bunch of Disney purists who think they know what makes the best Disney park and what doesn't.>> Once again, it isn't what the "Disney purists" or "DCA bashers" or the "DCA Champions" think, it is what the general public thinks that most matters to the Disney Company. And good or bad, like it or not, the fact is that DCA is going to go through major changes to better entice guests to come and visit. They are doing everything they can to increase attendance. One person's opinion on whether guests are enjoying themselves or not is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is what the marketing research is telling them. And that they respond to the guest's various concerns about their actual experience in DCA. If the precieved value is lower for them at DCA than at DL, then that will have a great impact on the future of attractions at DCA. There is no way to know what the ultimate changes will be, but it will be in line with what the guests are telling them today.
Originally Posted By DL-2000 ::Even if they were, a few such rides don't ruin a theme park.:: No, but when such rides constitute the BULK of attractions at a park with very few high quality rides to counterbalance them, well, then they are detrimental to the park. ::> If the Main Street Vehicles are counted as 1 attraction, perhaps Paradise Pier should start being considered one attraction. Yeah, ok, whatever.:: That was pointless and dismissive. WrongWay makes an interesting point here: If the "carny" Main Street Vehicles are just there for "atmosphere", are all the "carny" rides in PP just there for "atmophere" as well? Hmmmmm...
Originally Posted By MackAttack <<One person's opinion on whether guests are enjoying themselves or not is totally irrelevant. What is relevant is what the marketing research is telling them. And that they respond to the guest's various concerns about their actual experience in DCA. If the precieved value is lower for them at DCA than at DL, then that will have a great impact on the future of attractions at DCA. There is no way to know what the ultimate changes will be, but it will be in line with what the guests are telling them today.>> Of course there is a way of knowing what those ultimate changes will be. You can see them now. They are called WWTBAM, A Bug's Land and TOT. They are also called character shows and meet & greets. They are called restaurant replacements at Avalon Cove and Mondavi restaurant. So there has been many noticeble changes made that have come directly from guest feedback and research. As for Paradise Pier. Well, I guess when you see that no major changes are made to Paradise Pier, maybe then you all will realize that a vast majority of the guests like the land the way it is with only minor changes (if that) made. I was hoping to be #300 with this post. Did I make it?
