Originally Posted By DouglasDubh "No, but when such rides constitute the BULK of attractions at a park with very few high quality rides to counterbalance them, well, then they are detrimental to the park." If they made up the bulk of the attractions, you'd have a case. But PP is only 1/3 of DCA.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher "Off-the-shelf" or not? "Carnival" or not? Or how about comparing DCA's Paradise Pier with one of the themed areas of Disneyland or that other new Disney park of 2001, DisneySea? This long-running debate makes me think of the arguments that can be made about the differences between Hyundais/Chevys and Porsches/Mercedes (all have 4 wheels and a steering wheel), Safeway/7-11 and Bristol Farms/Gelson's (all sell food), Wal-mart/Target and Nordstrom's/Sak's (all sell clothing, etc.), Dubuque/Detroit and Paris/London (all contain houses, offices and stores), Fox TV/MTV and PBS/A&E (all are TV broadcasters), etc. One can argue the virtue and success of things on either side of the measuring scale. For example, Wal-mart's sales growth has fared **far** better over the past many weeks -- and even prior to September 11th -- than the high-priced stores. One can like or dislike things on either side too. An example is when junk-food dinners are far more satisfying than so-called gourmet meals. Or one can prefer things on one end of the scale over the other. For example, a Mercedes would be a liability instead of a Chevy if one had to drive through a crime-ridden neighborhood everyday, and some shows on PBS are educational but dull, while some on Fox are dumb but entertaining. But there ARE differences, and when someone can't see those differences or couldn't care less about them, this, once again, shows the impact that clouded insight and poor judgement have on a project, and why that project is more likely to turn out unimpressive and unsuccessful. Just as important, this explains why the matter of budget/money by itself won't explain ALL the reasons (or sometimes ANY of the reasons) something is remarkable or not, or prosperous or not.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh "But there ARE differences, and when someone can't see those differences or couldn't care less about them, this, once again, shows the impact that clouded insight and poor judgement have on a project, and why that project is more likely to turn out unimpressive and unsuccessful." I think most people here agree there are differences, and can see that some products are inferior to others. It just bothers some people that other people exaggerate these differences, rather than analyzing them rationally.
Originally Posted By woody >>It just bothers some people that other people exaggerate these differences, rather than analyzing them rationally. What's rational? I believe "Off-the-shelf" and "Carnival" are descriptive, not an exaggeration.
Originally Posted By MackAttack <<I believe "Off-the-shelf" and "Carnival" are descriptive, not an exaggeration.>> I'm glad to see Woody that you finally can see these phrases as true descriptions of many of the DL rides too. Score one for our side!
Originally Posted By woody >>>Score one for our side! That's not what I'm saying. "Off-the-shelf" and "Carnival" are descriptive of DCA rides, not DL rides.
Originally Posted By MackAttack It's okay Woody, we are all happy to see that you are now willing to see that DL has "Off-the-shelf" or "Carnival" type rides too. There is no need to hide under that old DCA bashing image anymore by trying to deny your original comment. It is so refreshing to see when someone who once bashed DCA now can see the truth that both Disney parks do indeed have these types of rides.
Originally Posted By DisneyAce If you ridecule on one, but not the other that is equal, you dissolve any arguement" Fact: Spinners are Spinners, dark rides are dark rides and DCA and DL both have them. It is good to see some of the DCA BASHRICS (amalgram for basher and critic) coming to see the sunshiine. I thought woody was a closet DCA fan, don't worry woddy there is no same and plenty of support on our side (middle or extreme). Welcome to the cause.
Originally Posted By DisneyAce If you ridecule on one, but not the other that is equal, you dissolve any arguement" Fact: Spinners are Spinners, dark rides are dark rides and DCA and DL both have them. It is good to see some of the DCA BASHRICS (amalgram for basher and critic) coming to see the sunshiine. I thought woody was a closet DCA fan, don't worry woddy there is no shame and plenty of support on our side (middle or extreme). Welcome to the cause.
Originally Posted By DisneyAce If you ridecule on one, but not the other that is equal, you dissolve any arguement" Fact: Spinners are Spinners, dark rides are dark rides and DCA and DL both have them. It is good to see some of the DCA BASHRICS (amalgram for basher and critic) coming to see the sunshiine. I thought woody was a closet DCA fan, don't worry woddy there is no shame and plenty of support on our side (middle or extreme). Welcome to the cause.
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe Walt wanted his park to be among that type (Without the ever so prominent farris wheel). >> Then why was there a ferris wheel in some of his earlier plans? Fab
Originally Posted By woody >>t's okay Woody, we are all happy to see that you are now willing to see that DL has "Off-the-shelf" or "Carnival" type rides too. There is no need to hide under that old DCA bashing image anymore by trying to deny your original comment. I wonder what my original comment was that gotten you into stitches and convinced you that my position has changed. >>It is so refreshing to see when someone who once bashed DCA now can see the truth that both Disney parks do indeed have these types of rides. Once bashed isn't accurate. I will continue to bash DCA. Of course, Disney Parks have these rides. But only DCA has the carnival rides in one land in the proper seaside amusement park setting that reeks of cheapness. On another note, it think the trend of cheap off-the-shelf rides will spread to other Disney Parks so your statement isn't inaccurate. Soon Animal Kingdom will get their own version of Paradise Pier. >>I thought woody was a closet DCA fan, don't worry woddy there is no same and plenty of support on our side (middle or extreme). In my previous posts (not only here), I said DCA is a below average Disney Park. My position hasn't changed.
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe > If the Main Street Vehicles are counted as 1 attraction, perhaps Paradise Pier should start being considered one attraction.>> That's how it was intended. All of it fits together into one gorgeous piece. (Source: Interview with Tim Delaney, Feb 8,2001) Oh, and the castle doesn't wrap around Dumbo and the Teacups. They only bring wonderful childhood memories to YOU because they were in YOUR childhood. The Pike brings me wonderful childhood memories. That's why Paradise Pier does. Fab
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe Your comments above Woody shows just how disrespectful you are to others who don't share your OPINION. Yes, that is right Woody, it is only your OPINION >> Actually, Mack, I'd bet dollars to Krispy Kremes he's parrotting someone else's opinion. I'd love to see more rides in Paradise Pier, like those great bubbles they had at POP and the Octopus ride they had there. Fab
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe Mack, e-me and I'll tell you a funny story. Woody: glad to see you admit that what you do IS bashing, not thoughtful critique. That's the first step! Ace: Did you know this is the huhdredth anniversary of the Dark Ride? They are far from Disney Originals! Fab
Originally Posted By woody >>Actually, Mack, I'd bet dollars to Krispy Kremes he's parrotting someone else's opinion. Who could that be? Anyone we know? Anyone YOU know? >> Woody: glad to see you admit that what you do IS bashing, not thoughtful critique. That's the first step! A bash doesn't necessarily mean its not thoughtful. You can't get over the severe criticism. Some people are not open minded.
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe A bash doesn't necessarily mean its not thoughtful. You can't get over the severe criticism. Some people are not open minded.>> What can I say to this that won't get me red-flagged? Fab
