Oct 10 Jim Hill Column

Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

It's looks pretty cool while riding Screamin' too. Anyone who says that Screamin' is just like any other coaster is fooling themselves.

 

Originally Posted By JohnS3

Hopemax - I live in a little town south of Spokane. Have been to Silverwood three, maybe four times. I think of it as a mini six-flags park, cleaner and more theming perhaps, but basically trying to attract people with one new thrill ride (mostly coasters) each year. The man who started it was a millionaire who simply loved amusement parks and wanted his own. That makes me think of him being more like Walt in that regard. So maybe his enthusiasm shows in the resulting park. I think they have their own website - prolly Silverwood.com or something. What fascinates me most is that they can afford to shut down half the year (they have to 'cause the weather here gets bad - well, rifght about now, as a matter of fact!) But it's a fun summer place to go when you can't afford a trip to LA.

 

Originally Posted By JohnS3

Sorry - it appears some soccer team grabbed that domain name first. So it's: <a href="http://www.silverwood4fun.com" target="_blank">http://www.silverwood4fun.com</a>

Have a looksee.

 

Originally Posted By JohnS3

Sorry - it appears some soccer team grabbed that domain name first. So it's: <a href="http://www.silverwood4fun.com" target="_blank">http://www.silverwood4fun.com</a>

Have a looksee.

 

Originally Posted By driftwood714

Disney's California Adventure Park is NOT Disneyland Park. I didn't say they both weren't DISNEY, which they very clearly are. And, as I've said in the past, and you can ask any official at the park (not people here), they will tell you that a 1Day/1Park ticket is just that a day admission to one of the two parks. You're not buying the "park" necessarily, but the DAY there. You can spend the day how you want. You make your vacation.
Someone could sit around at Disneyland and do maybe 4 or 5 rides, then go over to Disney's California Adventure and do 12 rides the next day. For the average guest, where's the better value for his dollar between the both days in that situation? He makes his vacation.

The new resort is aimed at non-local guests to stay longer for their vacations. Many guests are staying 3 to 5 days at a time. These guests are not paying anything extra for the new park. For them it(park hopping) is another benefit. They could spend all 5 days at Disneyland Park or all 5 days at Disney's California Adventure or a combination of both. They make their vacation.

 

Originally Posted By fabdisbabe

What I find very interesting is the range of thoughtful (and not so thoughful) analysis regarding the rides found in PP. It shows the high degree of attachment to Disney theme parks.>>

One thing we definitely have in common: Passion.

>>Then why was there a ferris wheel in some of his earlier plans?<<

Couldn't it be because Walt wanted to sell his new theme park concept to a bunch of narrow minded investors and bankers whos only reference to amusement parks that included "carny" rides.

Banker: "Very interesting idea, Mr. Disney, but where's the ferris wheel. Everyone know that amusement parks have ferris wheels."

Walt: " Shucks if all it takes for you to give me that loan so I can break ground it 1954 is a ferris wheel, then by golly I'll add a ferris wheel. If I add TWO will you double the amount?"

Later back in Burbank Walt dictates a memo to DL design team: "Once we reach our goal for funding Disneyland, delete all plans for cheap carny rides and begin planning on the mountain themed rollercoaster and the spook house.">>

or maybe he put in a call to President Eisenhower. Or maybe his cat spoke to him. This is complete conjecture on your part, and only took place in your imagination.

Fab

 

Originally Posted By fabdisbabe

Then why was there a ferris wheel in some of his earlier plans?

Fab>>

I think that Walt simply had an epiphany!

>>

I think you are guessing!

Fab

 

Originally Posted By driftwood714

and what an imagination it is!

 

Originally Posted By fabdisbabe

Just my opinion, maybe he's sucking up to the mouse because he wants an official position of somekind, and will throw ONLY the MOST positive light of an area of DCA that does have a few things going for it....as well as not having a few things going for it.>>

Not even remotely close. Gee, maybe he knows what he's talking about? Maybe he's done proper research instead of just trying to stir up a bee's nest of controversy to get readership? I know Jim better than anyone else here, and if Jim ever accepts a position from Disney, I'll grab my chest and fall down.

Jim Hill is an honest, intelligent, well-sourced writer. If his ex-wife can say that, honey, ANYONE who knows him or has worked with him can. I've watched him gather information, double-and triple-check it, and pore over subjects weeks before writing out the entire article by hand, editing and re-editing it, and then typing it in.

I'd kill for half of his sources, inside and outside of Disney. For you to malign him in this manner is reprehensible. Disagree with his message, but don't take potshots at him just because you don't agree with the corporate direction of the Disney company.

Doobie will back me up on this: Jim Hill does not, has not ever, and will not ever suck up to Disney. Don't believe me? Read his past articles. He has yet to handle Disney with kid gloves, and he is respected (not always loved, believe me) by many people within and without the entertainment and theme park industries.

Sorry for ranting, but that was a low blow.

Fab

 

Originally Posted By damon63

Disneyland is over-rated. This seems especially true to me after reading some of the posts that almost suggest that the Park is a devine inspiration from God.

On the other hand DCA, and specifically Paradise Pier, isn't nearly as awful as some people make it out to be. The few times I've been there guests seemed to be enjoying themselves.

Everyone will have their preferences but I don't think that the average visitor will view the two theme parks as anything othere than what they are: two theme parks.

 

Originally Posted By crapshoot

Holy Moly Fabdisbabe! Am I missing something here? It is nice of Mr. Hill to point out the wonderful little details and fine Disney touches in Paradise Pier to all of us fans. And I bet most agree that PP is the cleanest rendition of a seaside amusement park in the world.

But, the overall preception for the paying public is that there is better value at Disneyland park at this time than at DCA. There is more to do for the whole family for the same price. How can this simple fact be delt with by the Disney management? By what? By adding more attractions, enticements and value to DCA.

The little touches added to California Screamin' to give it a woodie feel are nice to point out as being that special Disney touch. But face it, those necessary details are not bringing in the numbers that is hoped for. It is a given that those details would already be there before guests walk in the front gate simply because it is a Disney Theme Park.

Love, hate or somewhere betwixed Paradise Pier by us fans isn't nearly as important as what the paying public believes.

Sorry Mr. Hill if you have been taking any of this personal.

 

Originally Posted By cstephens


WrongWay wrote:
> As I said in another post, everytime I hear someone saying how great the pier is, they are sitting across the bay at the Cove bar.

Yes, I loved the view from the Cove Bar (and from the Mickey and Friends parking structure as well), but the first time I realized how cool Paradise Pier was, I was sitting on the ground towards one end of Screamin', waiting for the parade, with the sun shining around me, and the roar of the coaster and the screams of its riders filtering down to me, and all the happy faces walking by having a good time.



/cs

 

Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

"But, the overall preception for the paying public is that there is better value at Disneyland park at this time than at DCA."

How do you know that? Certainly more people attend Disneyland than DCA every day, but is this because a perception of value or because Disneyland has a lot more things to do so people spend more time there? As has been said many times, DCA was primarily built to provide multi-day visitors to Disneyland a reason to spend more time at the resort. Disney never expected DCA to attract as many visitors as Disneyland; they expected it to draw about half.

"But face it, those necessary details are not bringing in the numbers that is hoped for."

We really don't know for sure how well it is performing, especially relative to Disneyland. Whether it's a success or not depends more on whether it's revenues are exceeding it's expenses, and whether it's causing more people to stay at one of the 3 Disney hotels, than whether it meets its attendence goals.

 

Originally Posted By crapshoot

<<, but is this because a perception of value or because Disneyland has a lot more things to do so people spend more time there?>>

I love it when my point is further amplified by someone disagreeing with me.

<<and whether it's causing more people to stay at one of the 3 Disney hotels,>>

But, even this statement doesn't take into account the local population who do not make up the all important transient trade at the Disney Resort Hotels. But, they do make up the bulk of paying guests at the parks. And where is the bulk of their dollars going, probobly 3:1 or on some days 4:1 are going to DL, not 2:1 as planned.

 

Originally Posted By woody

>>We really don't know for sure how well it is performing, especially relative to Disneyland. Whether it's a success or not depends more on whether it's revenues are exceeding it's expenses, and whether it's causing more people to stay at one of the 3 Disney hotels, than whether it meets its attendence goals.

They're NOT losing money, that's a fact. They're cutting costs tremendously with cuts to employees and entertainment.

Attendance is the problem. Higher attendance generates more revenue and then more profits.

 

Originally Posted By fabdisbabe

Holy Moly Fabdisbabe! Am I missing something here? >>

Actually, yes.

Jim hasn't said a word to me about this, so don't apologize for that.

What I took issue with was the implication that Jim was trying to cozy up to Disney by doing something dishonest. It's the opposite of him.

Fab

 

Originally Posted By hopemax

>How do you know that? Certainly more people attend Disneyland than DCA every day, but is this because a perception of value or because Disneyland has a lot more things to do so people spend more time there?

Can I ask what your definition of "perception of value" is? Mine goes something like "what you get" vs. "what you pay." You stated that you do get more at DL and the "rack" price for the parks is the same.

 

Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

"I love it when my point is further amplified by someone disagreeing with me."

It wasn't.

"And where is the bulk of their dollars going, probobly 3:1 or on some days 4:1 are going to DL, not 2:1 as planned."

At least you used the word "probobly" in there. The truth is you don't know.

 

Originally Posted By DouglasDubh

"Attendance is the problem. Higher attendance generates more revenue and then more profits."

And it appears that attendence is off at Disneyland too. And WDW as well. Is attendence at DCA half of what it is at Disneyland? I don't know, but I suspect it's not as far off as somepeople imagine.

 

Originally Posted By driftwood714

"Can I ask what your definition of "perception of value" is? Mine goes something like "what you get" vs. "what you pay." You stated that you do get more at DL and the "rack" price for the parks is the same"

I can say again that when you're visiting on a 1 Day ticket you spend the day in the park. How you spend the day is up to you. You're not paying for the park itself, you're paying for the day at A park.

There's no way you can finish everything in Disneyland in a day. But it is very possible to finish everything in Disney's California Adventure, granted you do EVERYTHING and not skip things. If you tried to do everything in Disneyland, I mean every show and attraction, it's easily take 2 days, for some 3 days. What you pay vs. what you get is up to how you spend your day.