Originally Posted By crapshoot A seaside amusement park is what the Disney Imagineers have wanted to do since the early 1990's? It is too bad that they let their passion get in the way of what Southern California's demographics would accept. But you know, with all of the linear induction technology in Screamin', it is still the raw kenetics of KBF's Ghost Rider that makes it a world class woodie.
Originally Posted By reddon “I cannot believe how much effort (including myself) that many of you have committed here just to either rip DCA apart or support it tooth and nail. The simple fact is this, the park is not going away, it is not being changed to any other theme, it is pulling in numbers (perhaps not-so-good at times and really good at other times), the park isn't going under by any measure of the rule, new attractions are being added over the next few years and the biggest fact of them all - DCA WILL BE HERE 10, 15, 20 OR MORE YEARS FROM NOW and NO ONE in Disney cares what you one-sided critics have to say because you are the minority voice and not the majority voice. So, either get over your anger or just stop going. It WASN'T built for YOU then! It was built for the majority of guests who do LIKE the park." It’s true that money talks. I don’t think anyone here has the illusion that Disney will cater to whatever people said there. “NO ONE in Disney cares”? Is that a fact? I work for a big company. I know if we don’t listen to customer’s complaints, no matter how petty it seems at times, we will one day cease to be the leader. You can’t please everyone, but you don’t stop listening. “get over your anger”? Is anyone loosing sleep over DCA? I doubt even Al Lutz does.
Originally Posted By Jim Disney Waaahoooo! Good stuff, Jim! Great article. >>Not the eye of an unrealistic Disney dweeb who insists that every single attraction that the Imagineers burp out must be up to "Indiana Jones Adventure" standards<< Couldn't have said it better myself. All those "Backseat Imagineers" can get a little old sometimes. >>But you know, with all of the linear induction technology in Screamin', it is still the raw kenetics of KBF's Ghost Rider that makes it a world class woodie.<< Y'know, I can agree with the statement, but I think I have to disagree with the reasoning behind it. Screamin' is a family ride, Ghostrider is not. The intentions in design of the two are very different I think. JD <a href="http://www.westcoaster.net" target="_blank">http://www.westcoaster.net</a>
Originally Posted By MackAttack <<“NO ONE in Disney cares”? Is that a fact? I work for a big company. I know if we don’t listen to customer’s complaints, no matter how petty it seems at times, we will one day cease to be the leader. You can’t please everyone, but you don’t stop listening.>> That is true for the most part, but when it is a bunch of whiney, cynical and negative folks who repeat the same broken record about why DCA sucks, then Disney has chosen wisely to not waste any effort or time trying to reach out to these folks that represent only a minority in the overall opinion of the park (and I know that any other big company given the same situation would do no different). Now, if the comments were more constructive and not so mean, personal or just plain ridiculous, then Disney should (and does) listen loud and clear.
Originally Posted By WrongWay I haven't been around long, but I could imagine that a year of "It's great", "It Sucks" arguments could get old. That said, I believe MackAttack is violating board policy. I've seen a lot of posts by him that say, "I'm right, you're wrong", "shut up", "you are ignorant", and many other such messages. In this arcitle he mocks ("it cracks me up" as other people's opinions are a joke to him), dismisses ("if you don't like it, quit going") and yells (capitalization) at people who are simply expressing an opinion. I truely believe his behavior is breaking this rule: "6. NO FIGHTING: Please be polite to all posters on the Discussion Boards. Mean spirited messages and exchanges will be deleted at the administrators' discretion. We also ask that you don't unnecessarily antagonize others," Polite people don't yell, and mocking and dismissing do antagonize. I think MackAttack should listen to other people rather than trying to belittle them into silence.
Originally Posted By WrongWay Wow, he posted again before I could listen. Now he is calling people "whiney, cynical and negative" becuase they don't agree with him. MackAttack, You can't impose an idea by force. Some people (myself included) thing the amusement pier idea was a really bad idea. Name calling and bullying won't change our minds. If you want people to quit saying it is a bad idea, quit trying to convince us it is a good idea. The louder you yell that you are right, the louder the oposition will yell that they are right.
Originally Posted By MackAttack You are absolutely right Wrongway. If anyone was offended by my comments, please accept my apologies. As to the remarks I have made have not been that far off from what others have said on the boards as well. What is good for one, should not be sensored for another.
Originally Posted By MackAttack I'm not trying to convince anyone that PP is great. I have stated repeatedly that it is everyone's own opinion about PP or DCA overall. What annoys me is when those who have displayed quite strongly and aggressively their dissatisfaction with DCA try to overpower those who like DCA. I'm only turning that aggressiveness back onto those individuals. I guess I'm not allowed to be just as passionate, aggressive and straightforward as those who dislike DCA. I think DCA has it's share of problems, but let's review them in a constructive way and then move on. Instead, when anyone here posts a comment of praise for DCA, it is immediately attacked and ripped apart. Where were you then Wrongway? I promise to back off a little, but don't attempt to censor or tighten my access to provide an equally strong viewpoint in opposite to those who tend to monopolize some of these boards. Even Jim himself in his latest column refers to these folks with a term that seems to have offended some. Should we pull his column?
Originally Posted By driftwood714 I have to admit that a lot of the posters here comprise the most difficult group of "fans" I have ever seen. Myself included, ok? But that's why we come here. I must also admit that I love reading the debates on this board. It's funny to see something happen and watch everyone jump to their "sides". Keep at it! It's like a interactive soap opera. // driftwood //
Originally Posted By woody >>Not the eye of an unrealistic Disney dweeb who insists that every single attraction that the Imagineers burp out must be up to "Indiana Jones Adventure" standards<< >Couldn't have said it better myself. All those "Backseat Imagineers" can get a little old sometimes. Sometimes, Rocket Rods and SuperStar Limos fiascos can get a little old. I suppose its more realistic to expect a budget Tower of Terror.
Originally Posted By jonvn Testing the waters here.... I think Jim's article was great. I think it very accurately described what sorts of things are going on with DCA comments, and I also have to agree with a lot of what "MackAttack" has had to say. I don't always agree with Jim on things, and sometimes his take on the same sets of facts seem in opposition to mine, but in this case, he's pretty spot on as far as I am concerned. The Pier area is very nicely themed, that's simply how it is. Some people may dislike the theme, and that's their right. I personally don't care for the types of rides that are in the Pier area, but that does not mean that they are not very good for what they are, and are not done very well. Not everything is supposed to be Haunted Mansion or POTC. Not everything is supposed to be exactly the same, and not everything has to please everyone always. I appreciate PP for what it is, and I am sorry it does not have what I personally like in rides. But this does not make it bad, or unthemed, or anything else. It's simply not to my taste in what rides were placed in this area upon opening. It is my hope that additions will change this eventually. But if not, other people seem to enjoy this area quite a bit. I can't fault them for their enjoyment one bit. It has always been unfortunate that there exists a contingent that simply does not wish to allow other individuals to enjoy something because they personally don't like it. They are killjoys. And it is always the same names that pop up over and over again, too. I would like to mention to MackAttack that I have personally found it basically impossible to discuss or speak to these individuals as they quite often come across as brick walls unwilling to listen or discuss. I left a few weeks ago for a while after being called a corporate plant (amongst other things) because I dared not have the same opinion as them. It simply is that they have been given their marching orders, and that's how it is with these folks. So I understand your frustrations. My suggestion to you is to give up trying to convince them of anything, whether you know what you say is the real case or not. In the case of some individuals, there is no interest in an honest and open exchangen and this does lead to real frustration. It would be nice if this board had an "ignore user" feature, but it does not as of yet. In the meantime, I suggest ignoring them, as they really don't know what they are talking about, and simply want to spread negativity. Anyway, just to let you know that I appreciate your posts here. As for this post: Responses containing flames, insults, or cheap shots will be ignored.
Originally Posted By woody >>Not everything is supposed to be Haunted Mansion or POTC. Not everything is supposed to be exactly the same, and not everything has to please everyone always. Spoken like a person well versed in the current Disney philosophy.
Originally Posted By WrongWay "The Pier area is very nicely themed, that's simply how it is. Some people may dislike the theme, and that's their right." So, everyone is allowed to have an opinion, but yours is right? I think that the theme was a poor idea from conception, and that's simply how it is. "I personally don't care for the types of rides that are in the Pier area, but that does not mean that they are not very good for what they are, and are not done very well." I personally do like those kinds of rides, but I can find them at any cheap amusement in the country. The theming of making it look non-themed, simply doies not work for me. Personally, I expect more from Disney. "Not everything is supposed to be Haunted Mansion or POTC." But it would be nice if DCA had a couple of those. "Not everything is supposed to be exactly the same, and not everything has to please everyone always." But choosing to theme an area to look like a cheap amusement park? I think there is a big difference between "pleasing everyone", and Disney creating an area that looks like what most people go to Disney to avoid. "It has always been unfortunate that there exists a contingent that simply does not wish to allow other individuals to enjoy something because they personally don't like it." Yeah, those Six Flags bashers really get to me. I love Six Flags and Cedar Fair for cheap thrills. They are what they are. That doesn't mean that Disney should aspire to those standards. "It simply is that they have been given their marching orders, and that's how it is with these folks." Marching orders? From whom. Oh yeah, the Evil Group of Anti-Disney (E-GAD). It is our mission to convince everyone that CA Adventure sucks, to drive down DIS stock, so we can buy the company and add it to our Military Industrial Complex. OOOps, I wasn't supposed to give that away yet. Now I'll have to.... Never mind. That line just isn't funny anymore.
Originally Posted By crapshoot <<In the meantime, I suggest ignoring them, as they really don't know what they are talking about, and simply want to spread negativity.>> Jon, I personally just think that it is time for everyone to move on from taking such polarized views of DCA. Some things are good and others are not as good. Those things that haven't worked are being upgraded or changed out. DCA will be fine tuned for the next several years. Disney knows where the weak spots are. And they are working very hard to correct those. But the driving force of all this is attendance and revenue. They will bring the park in line to better match their guest's desires in theme park experiences and personal budgets. What else could they do especially in today's economic and political climate.
Originally Posted By disneylandking scutr, Do you honestly view Jim's articles as pure journalism? You don't see any aspect which could be considered editorial? You don't notice a tone that is not pure fact reporting. There is a personal opinion aspect to the column. That was what was shared. It was totally appropriate for that medium. I see that you refrencing wrestling is trying to make the comments appear childish. Making your own pedestal to climb up on is a silly thing. I think that Jim has the right to share his opinion in that column. He did. And that's that. You can disagree with what he said all day long. That's fine. I just don't see the need to say it's inappropriate for him to share his opinion. Like I said before, who's complaining about the shots at the big wigs. No one. There is an editorial aspect to the column.
Originally Posted By Britain Hey, jonvn! It's great to have you back! I was afraid you might have been a Sept. 11th casualty or something. Where's OrlandoBoi, by the way? He left on his worldwide trip right before the attacks.
Originally Posted By fabdisbabe I personally do like those kinds of rides, but I can find them at any cheap amusement in the country. >> Really? Great! At which cheap amusement can I find a Golden Zephyr? California Screamin'? The Sun Wheel? I know I can find a Dumbo-type ride anywhere; how about Maliboomer? I must be attending the wrong cheap amusements. Fab
Originally Posted By driftwood714 OT: I can't wait for OrlandoBoi to get back. Imagine the massive TR he's going to write.
Originally Posted By disneywatcher >> leemac: It is no wonder OLC had so much money to burn on the new park. << From this, one would conclude that DCA turned out the way it did primarily because of the money-money-money, dollars-dollars-dollars factor alone. Sure, there's a level of world-class quality at the new park in Tokyo that can be traced to an expenditure of X number of dollars. And there's some deficiencies associated with DCA that undoubtedly are due to a restricted budget. To deny this would be to deny a part of tough reality (and some of that, unfortunately, involves the fact that the Anaheim economy is less lucrative than the economies of Tokyo or Orlando). But, by the same token, I think there's a level of **regional-class** quality about DCA that can be traced to questionable taste and poor judgement on the part of various sectors of the DisCo. That's the part of the story of -- the trials and tribulations of -- DCA that I find to be so disappointing.
Originally Posted By leemac Crikey guys! The debate continues. Is Jim just stoking this fire, or what! Another article on DCA!! Do you want to know the real reason Disneyland got DCA as its baby brother? The company could afford nothing else. It is all well and good us talking about everything being an E-ticket, but Disney could not afford it. Anyone who invests in amusement parks only get moderate returns for their investment. Guests do not spend enough or visit the US parks enough for every park to have a new E-ticket once a year. It is fiscally irresponsible and the company is public and has to think of its shareholders. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand, I'm a big shareholder but on the other I'm a red-blooded Disney fan. The two simply do not go together. I would love to see TDS over in the U.S. but it is not going to happen. The great irony of this whole situation is that the only way DCA can afford to improve is if guests continue to visit, buy sourdough bread from Pacific Wharf Cafe and Mickey Ice Cream Cookie Sandwiches and then throws away the rest of their money in Greetings from California. We should be supporting the park (at least a little guys, come on!) and encouraging change by comments to cast members and the guest survey folks with their Palms. Otherwise Disney will canabalise projects destined for DL to prop up DCA. I for one, with the fiftieth around the corner, want to see a major celebration for 2005. For too long now, WDW has been the focus of company events. Anyway, i'm sure there are at least 10 million people that will disagree. There is just no pleasing some people....(only joking!). Anyway, I've got some Disneyland Paris articles for laughingplace.com that should be appearing soon and I expect will not provoke such rabid discussion!
