Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Of course, if you have an attraction that is doing that, why would you put an expiration date on an attraction that helps bring in those gate/food recipts in the first place??" Because eventually interest wears off and something new is needed to maintain attendance levels. If Disneyland were exactly the same today as it was in 1955 it be a lot less popular than it was when it first opened. Your comment brings up an interesting conundrum for Disney. In my opinion one of the problems with an over-emphasis on character material is that it doesn't have the shelf life that original material does, particularly if it's overly current in nature. For example, what do you suppose DLR will be like in 20, 30 years with all the Pixar stuff they are adding now? Will Buzz and Monsters have the longevity of Pirates, or Spaceship Earth? "This is my point, just because they bought Marvel, it doesnt mean they can go in and start making their own version of other studio film rights anytime they want now or demand these companies stop making these films, so why do people think it would be any different for theme park licenses??" Well why not. This is business, after all. No, they won't start immediately, but it's inevitable that these characters will eventually leave Universal's theme parks. "Its a veeeery intricate and complex ride that really has Spidermans signature all over it. Its like asking if they could change the Indiana Jones ride at DL into a land based POTC instead ." That wouldn't be that hard to do really. Doesn't Animal Kingdom's Dinosaur attraction utilize the same ride system, vehicles, and track layout as Indy? It's the exact same ride with a different storyline and theme. Disney did the same thing with SSL and Monsters. So, Universal could, with some expense, use the same ride system with new sets and have a "new" attraction.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Uni Florida has the rights to that ride anyway. It IS theoretically possible, though, that Disney could open it in DCA (West of the Mississippi), presumably in HPB. How weird would that be? The same ride at Uni Fla. and Disney in CA? I don't see that happening any time soon either (they pretty much have DCA mapped out through 2012/Cars Land). But after 2012? Who knows.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I'm wondering if there's any proprietary technology with the 'spiderman' ride. Just because disney owns the rights to the character doesn't mean they can clone the attraction. Two different things. As for movies, Universal came out with their own Peter Pan movie about five years ago. If they wanted, Uni could probably create their own Peter Pan theme park ride - including all the familiar characters and tag lines. They didn't, but they "could have".
Originally Posted By WorldDisney "Of course, if you have an attraction that is doing that, why would you put an expiration date on an attraction that helps bring in those gate/food recipts in the first place??" <<Because eventually interest wears off and something new is needed to maintain attendance levels. If Disneyland were exactly the same today as it was in 1955 it be a lot less popular than it was when it first opened.>> Hans, this 'debate' is really strange. I know I'm rarely here these days, but you usually catch on to my long winded rants very quickly. But this isnt what I'm arguing at all. Yes, if UNIVERSAL decides they want to get rid of the attraction for whatever reason, thats one thing. I'm not arguing that at all. But their competitor buying a company they have licensing rights for to basically FORCE them to close down one of their attractions is something entirely different and something I have never heard done before. Again, you are arguing the former, which I AGREE with you on, thats obvious. But its apples and organges between when Universal deciding to shut down one of its attractions and someone else forcing them to. And once again, Spiderman is the #1 ride of that park. It is now considered a 'franchise' ride which means future Universal parks will more than likely get it as well, including Universal Singapore in a few years time if the rumors are true. And its funny we are only talking this ride because they have about a half dozen other Marvel attractions I dont think they will take likely to closing down just like that. Seriously, I can see a loooong drawn out fight if Disney even tried this move and I wouldnt blame them one bit for fighting it tooth and nail. <<Your comment brings up an interesting conundrum for Disney. In my opinion one of the problems with an over-emphasis on character material is that it doesn't have the shelf life that original material does, particularly if it's overly current in nature. For example, what do you suppose DLR will be like in 20, 30 years with all the Pixar stuff they are adding now? Will Buzz and Monsters have the longevity of Pirates, or Spaceship Earth?>> Honestly I dont know and it is a little hard to say. Of course you CAN argue these characters have been around much longer than this (not the PIXAR ones, the comic book guys ) and STILL popular comics, makes hundreds of millions in theaters etc, they do seem to have a long shelf life in other entertainment forms, PIXAR itself is still young so the verdict is out on them, but I guess these companies ask themselves if these other properties has been around so long and still so popular (and universally popular as they are all around the world like most of America) why not in theme park rides either? And I'm guessing its not really the brand that keeps people coming back, its really the ride itself. AS long as the ride is good, the character will stay. I doubt people will stop liking the Indiana Jones ride just because the character loese peoples interest (and after the LAST film, I cant blame them if it did ). The characters are the name recognition that get people to come, but the attractions still have to be GOOD regardless! Look at Star Tours, you can argue Star Wars is a little dated, certainly the ride, but yet they are making a new journey and I can bet you if its GOOD, people will be lining up for that thing like they did in 1987 even though most people werent happy with the last set of films. But the brand is still known and more importantly the ride itself is just a good attraction, period! So yeah, the character might bring them in, but the attraction itself is what makes them come back actually . So unless its a character that becomes offensive somehow, I dont see much differeneces in perception of how much people want to ride it and how popular the character is later. "This is my point, just because they bought Marvel, it doesnt mean they can go in and start making their own version of other studio film rights anytime they want now or demand these companies stop making these films, so why do people think it would be any different for theme park licenses??" <<Well why not. This is business, after all. No, they won't start immediately, but it's inevitable that these characters will eventually leave Universal's theme parks.>> C'mon Hans you seriously believe that?? There are contracts, exclusive rights, lots and LOTS of money at stake, advertising, promotion, building a brand, etc. You think Universal is going to just let all that go because its greedy competitor is trying to screw them over?? Thats why you HAVE a contract, so they cant and you fight it tooth and nail!! (And to give Disney credit here, theyve come out and said they would honor all contracts anyway, so again not sure why this is even coming up). Look, I dont know man, but I stated this, its been stated in other boards from people who supposedly know what they are talking about. These rides arent going anywhere until Universal shuts down its gates or decides to take a payday from Disney and I honestly dont see any two happening, especially, I'll say it again, their #1 ride in the place, partly what keeps them competitive against Disney in the first place. Can you imagine Disney shutting its doors down to Splash Mountain, HM or POTC for their competitor??? I dont see how anyone would expect Universal to give up their signature attractions either. That makes no sense man. Thats like Microsoft XBOX buying Playstations key video game contractors, tells playstation they are not allowed to sell those games that were ALREADY made by them in the past no more including their best selling games, just for XBOX to turn around and sell those SAME games Playstation developed and marketed for years against them in the marketplace instead. And Playstation happily takes it? C'mon man, what company do you know in corporate America that would be stupid enough to take that??? What parallel universe does this happen in? These companies dont get where they're at being lapdogs to their competitiors and not to the almighty Disney either. "Its a veeeery intricate and complex ride that really has Spidermans signature all over it. Its like asking if they could change the Indiana Jones ride at DL into a land based POTC instead ." <<That wouldn't be that hard to do really. Doesn't Animal Kingdom's Dinosaur attraction utilize the same ride system, vehicles, and track layout as Indy? It's the exact same ride with a different storyline and theme. Disney did the same thing with SSL and Monsters. So, Universal could, with some expense, use the same ride system with new sets and have a "new" attraction.>> See this is the thing, Dinosaur SUCKS compared to Indy and is a very, very pale imitation at best. Yes, same ride system and track and outside of that nothng alike. Nada! Again, it CAN be done, but it will be COMPLETELY seperate rides, thats my point. People want to ride SPIDERMAN not something else, what makes that ride is that you feel you are web slinging all through N.Y.C, climbing walls, etc. Its done, really, really well! That what sells it just like Indy sells the fact you in this very old and booby trapped temple racing to find Inday and get out. Thats the gist of the ride. You change those varibles, you can change what makes the ride special in the first place. You stick Batman or Captain America in there, its a completely different ride and tone. Hans, I dont know, is it JUST me or are you trying to get this ride shut down lol. You are spending a great deal of energy over something that everyone has basically said, including Universal themselves, is not going anywhere...nor SHOULD!! They own the ride, about 6 of them in fact, they help pay for their development, their upkeep and the name on the things that I imagine they have licensed for the next 99 years. Disney owning Marvel doesnt take any of that away unless Universal decides they dont want them anymore. Why is this so hard to accept?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<It IS theoretically possible, though, that Disney could open it in DCA (West of the Mississippi), presumably in HPB. How weird would that be? The same ride at Uni Fla. and Disney in CA?>> Yeah, I dont see anyone stopping Disney from making anything similar...other their dignity and sense of worth ;D. But sure, I guess they can just lazily copy what others have done instead of being creative enough to do something original themselves....wait a second, these people built PP on purpose, what was I thinking . I'll take two Spidermans in that case!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>There are contracts, exclusive rights, lots and LOTS of money at stake, advertising, promotion, building a brand, etc. You think Universal is going to just let all that go because its greedy competitor is trying to screw them over?<< If Universal starts to view those Marvel attractions as helping to maintain or grow the Marvel/Disney brand, I think Universal will work as quickly as possible to have them removed. Likewise, if having Marvel characters at Universal is a thorn in Disney's side, I can see Universal hanging onto them for as long as possible. They've already got Harry Potter attractions coming up -- which is unique in the theme park realm. It wouldn't surprise me to see them get all the Marvel characters out as fast as possible, replacing them with perhaps DC. And let's not forget that Universal itself has a pretty rich cast of characters from their own films from which they can draw. I don't know that the Marvel characters will be out of Universal parks soon, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "C'mon Hans you seriously believe that??" Yes, I do and others here have stated the same. Look, all you have to do is look at Disney's history. The company fights tooth and nail to protect their properties, and rightly so. I would imagine that the company's stock holders will also expect management make an attempt to exploit Marvel's characters within the boundaries of all it's resorts, including WDW. "There are contracts, exclusive rights, lots and LOTS of money at stake, advertising, promotion, building a brand, etc." Well sure, but most contractual agreements usually have some sort of expiration date, termination clause, etc. As I said before, I don't expect it to happen overnight, but eventually - whether its 10 years or 20 - I'm almost certain that the Marvel characters will not be a feature at Universal's parks.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney >>There are contracts, exclusive rights, lots and LOTS of money at stake, advertising, promotion, building a brand, etc. You think Universal is going to just let all that go because its greedy competitor is trying to screw them over?<< <<If Universal starts to view those Marvel attractions as helping to maintain or grow the Marvel/Disney brand, I think Universal will work as quickly as possible to have them removed.>> Thats could happen, but I'm not sure how a theme park ride that would get people coming to their theme park and buying their merchandise would help Disney in any way? I mean, Spiderman and others are going to make Disney money regardless if Universal keeps a theme park ride or not. If that was the case, they wouldve gotten rid of it 7 years ago with Sony from profiting with the Spiderman films doing so well. If anything this stuff just helps each other and if going to see the SONY movie somehow got you itching to ride the attraction, where you know wher you can find it . <<Likewise, if having Marvel characters at Universal is a thorn in Disney's side, I can see Universal hanging onto them for as long as possible.>> Thats true as well, but I still dont get how that would do much against Disney for the simple fact when you go to Universal and buy the merchandise, wouldnt that technically mean Disney would get a licensing fee now? And wouldnt it also mean if Universal keeps them or not, Disney will still be allowed to makes its own merchandise in its parks as well? Stay or go, I think end of the day as long as these companies are making money off these properties and not LOSING it, no one is going anywhere . <<They've already got Harry Potter attractions coming up -- which is unique in the theme park realm. It wouldn't surprise me to see them get all the Marvel characters out as fast as possible, replacing them with perhaps DC. And let's not forget that Universal itself has a pretty rich cast of characters from their own films from which they can draw.>> And to be fair they do!! In fact I would say the Universal parks rely much more on their own properties than Marvel, ie MIB, JP, Mummy, BTTF, ET, LUCY, etc. IIRC the Marvel rides only take up a fraction of their ride roster, but that said they are some of the most popular rides in the place so that makes it difficult for some. True Incredible Hulk Coaster probably wouldnt have much problem changign to something else since its just a steale coaster. That said, I dont see why Universal would want to get rid of Marvel just because Disney owns the rights to some of them? Doesnt Universal help promote other properties like Shrek, The Simpsons, Terminator, etc since they are all from film competitor property? TF 2 is the biggest movie by Paramount, also this year, also a big competitor against universal, but guess which theme park will have the new TF new ride installed in Singapore next year and then the Florida parks? I mean, Disney has attractions that comes from film competitors like Paramount, FOX, Sony and others in their parks as well. As for Spiderman, it has different licenses through its films, cartoons, toys, video games and theme park rides, 5 different companies. Universal is faaar from the only studio that benefits from its name. So I still dont get just because Disney owns it now why would no one want these licenese anymore? Money is money! Marvel makes it money from that character mainly from the comic books and licencing him out for others to make like they have been doing. Maybe in time Disney can rein it in for just themselves, but that franchise is so tied up right now, its probably decades away from happening. Marvel just got back the Incredible Hulk film rights at least, so thats something! And again, I think people are ONLY focusing on the bigger names, when there are apparently 5000 UNTAPPED characters no one has any claims to EXCEPT Marvel. I think Disney is probably more interested in characters like this that is 100% Marvels and not split 8 different ways by every media company in Hollywood as well. <<I don't know that the Marvel characters will be out of Universal parks soon, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.>> I dont think its impossible, just simply unlikely thats all. Universal has spent a great deal of time building up these characters in its parks worldwide just like Disney with Pixar. I think its premature to think all that will change now, especially when you consider their international parks like Japan and Singapore that opens next year and ALSO has built up these brands and I'm sure that was a pain in the butt to get in certain licencing rules for those places as well. Spidrman ride is HUGE in Japan, I stood in its crazy line twice lol, I cant see them happy about losing that ride since Disney obviously just as much of a main competitor in Japan as well. I just think people are over thinking this. I'm sure Disney has big plans, but I'm guessing its with the stuff they dont have to hire 20 lawyers to fight for years to get the rights back, from allll those characters in the clear and open they can use at their hearts whim with. And Ironman 2 is allll theirs now, in theaters next May. Its going to be odd to see the Disney title with that one lol.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>5000 UNTAPPED characters no one has any claims to EXCEPT Marvel<< Sure, but other than perhaps the top 20 or so, you start getting into some pretty obscure and unknown territory. Then again... <a href="http://www.freshnessmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/barack-obama-spiderman-01.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.freshnessmag.com/wp...n-01.jpg</a> ; )
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And again, I think people are ONLY focusing on the bigger names, when there are apparently 5000 UNTAPPED characters no one has any claims to EXCEPT Marvel." Yes, there is potential earnings to be made from those characters, but let be honest, the $4 billion that Disney is investing is mostly for the well known marketable ones - at least for now. Without Spiderman, Wolverine, etc. I highly doubt that Marvel would have been worth that much. Which, of course, is yet another argument for why Disney will ultimately want 100% control of those properties at it's parks. "So I still dont get just because Disney owns it now why would no one want these licenese anymore?" I think you may be focusing too much on the other companies. Remember that Marvel owned those characters before Disney purchased the company, so it stands to reason that Marvel could exercise some control over how, when, and where they are used at Universal. Like Pixar, Marvel will probably be granted some autonomy within Disney with the parent company ensuring that its intellectual property is ultimately under its control. This may be a bit of an oversimplification, but I see Universal's licensing deal with Marvel in the same way that I view Disney's character licenses with the manufacturers that it uses to produce its toys and clothing. Eventually the deals run out and the two parties either agree to continue business or not.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney "C'mon Hans you seriously believe that??" <<Yes, I do and others here have stated the same. Look, all you have to do is look at Disney's history. The company fights tooth and nail to protect their properties, and rightly so. I would imagine that the company's stock holders will also expect management make an attempt to exploit Marvel's characters within the boundaries of all it's resorts, including WDW.>> Of course, I KNOW they will lol, but as its been explained, IF everything is true, Universal has the rights to those characters in those parks, period. Disney buys them out or gets the CEO in a crazy sex scandal causing the stock to fall like crazy lol, buys the company outright, but until UNIVERSAL decides they want to sell these rights that they had a tad longer than Disney, what else is there to say? Unless you're suggesting murder? (I didnt say it!! I'm just saying, okay, I've said to much). And Universal owns the freaking rides. Again, can you tell me that if Disney sold POTC film rights or PIXAR tomorrow, somehow they would be forced to shut down those ride?? Because basically thats what you're saying will happen to Universal somehow and I dont see that happening with Disney, so unless Universal decides their #1 attraction on two continents is not worth having anymore. As far as I know I that would be unprecidented, thats all. And Universal wouldnt take it without a fight and rightly so!! And it still doesnt explain how Disney will get its hands on its movie franchise (and lets be honest, where the REAL money comes from considering Spiderman 3 alone grossed a billion dollars for Sony). Disney is going to go crazy trying to buy up every contract and rights in Hollywood over these characters. "There are contracts, exclusive rights, lots and LOTS of money at stake, advertising, promotion, building a brand, etc." <<Well sure, but most contractual agreements usually have some sort of expiration date, termination clause, etc. As I said before, I don't expect it to happen overnight, but eventually - whether its 10 years or 20 - I'm almost certain that the Marvel characters will not be a feature at Universal's parks.>> Sure but considering this ride is suppose to be coming to Singapore in a few years time AND the much delayed Dubai project if it gets made, obviously its not anytime soon (which ironically Marvel was suppose to build its OWN theme park there as well...small world lol). Again maybe, but I doubt less than me and your lifetime, put it that way. T2 3D is still going strong and that was 16 years ago with no end in sight yet. Thats coming to Singapore too btw. If there is an expiration date, its going to be a long one if these people are smart....but Disney is patient I give you that . But point blank, people seem to be making all these assumptions when the company basically said it will honor all the contracts and Universal has said nothing will change in its operations. Im not naive, i know behind the scenes things can change, but I'm guessing Disney will just take advantage of the thousands of other characters it now owns and Universal cant itself. End of the day, that company only owns about 5 characters, just very popular ones and Disney STILL can use them in other theme parks anyway. And all this talk over Spiderman, people seem to forget that Ironman is pretty hot on its own, HAS a film coming out next year and completely in the clear from other studios hands and that Disney can promote on its own and can build all the Ironman parades and rides without stepping on anyones toes at the moment. I just think its those properties that Disney can use without other peoples hands in the cookie jar that is most valuable and there are more of those than not at Marvel right now.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney LOL X, I thought you would be happy to see me back on LP wasting a lot of hot air like the old days . Advice taken though, it was fun for a short time again anyway! Take care everyone.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Of course, I KNOW they will lol, but as its been explained, IF everything is true, Universal has the rights to those characters in those parks, period." Well, they have the right under whatever agreement the parks have with Marvel. Universal does not own those characters outright, Marvel, that is Disney, does. So, Universal is at the mercy of whatever agreement currently exists and most likely Disney will want to renegotiate those terms when the time comes. That's all I'm sayin'.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Advice taken though, it was fun for a short time again anyway! Take care everyone.*** Well, I just meant go to bed for a couple hours. Then you can come back and write more (and someone will argue with you, naturally. you should write "the sky is blue" and see who argues first lol).
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Took your advice Mr. X and I'm back ;D. This time with more ammo to boot. Copied and pasted from another thread in this section: <<(Copies and pasted from the Disney business section). <The Orlando Sentinel states "Marvel also has various deals with the two-park Universal Orlando. The agreements governing two of Universal's hugely popular rides, The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man and The Incredible Hulk roller coaster, appear to be virtually perpetual deals. According to Universal's filings with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, Universal Orlando retains American rights east of the Mississippi River for as long as its attractions are in operation.">> This is basically what I read on the OTHER site and why it will be virtually impossible for Disney to change any of those rules. Like I was stating before, these contracts usually go on forever or until the park closese, thats only good business sense, especially for your signature attraction. Unless Disney buys out Universal or Universal kindly gives up its license to these characters (fat chance), expect your grandkids to be riding this ride in a few decades time assuming IOA is still around then. However its not to say we wont see other Marvel attractions in WDW and certainly DL, but just not a Spiderman one on the east coast and certainly not the exact same attraction.
Originally Posted By Hista98 it will not be leaving uni orlando, I'm confused by this whole thing too as I though universal already owned the rights, tweo companies can't hold the rights can they? form what I'ved heared Dsiney is allowe dto use marvel form the mississippi to the west, while to the east only universla can use it. this means that there won't be any marvel at WDW only DL!!!
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan ^^^^ Universal has the Spiderman and Hulk character rights for their theme parks. It means that WDW can't have a Spiderman or Hulk attraction. Those are the only Marvel character limitations the Universal deal contains. I'm not sure whether that also includes Spiderman and Hulk walk around characters. But, as far as Disney's concerned, I don't see any benefit of having those characters walking their parks if there are no associated attractions available (except at Universal).
Originally Posted By Hista98 there isn't a B and B attraction but they still have bell walking around
