Originally Posted By Mr X There's a *lot* of backstage green visible from the monorail and hotels. I'm not sure if they just don't care, or if there wasn't much they could do (or a combination of both), but I don't think they'll be all that worried about the back of one more attraction considering how ugly those views already are.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros ^^I don't particularly care about seeing warehouse buildings that look like warehouse buildings, but I think it would be pretty disappointing to see the back of a mountain that looks like a warehouse. To a certain degree, this is already the case with the Indiana Jones building, which clearly has the crumbled stones around the top but otherwise looks like a metal warehouse, but given that it's sort of a generic square temple building I don't think it's as big of an issue as a mountain Considering how impressive Mt Prometheus is from every angle, I'm hopeful that they will find a good solution for the new mountain. I also hope that having a second mountain doesn't take away from the impressiveness of the first one Will they have to reroute the monorail for this? I know there's already some space within the park for the new development, but it looks like they're adding a lot of stuff for a small footprint
Originally Posted By NGrey <<I'm starting to think that this will be more like DL's 1983 Fantasyland project than the 2013 MK project>> I hope so. Their current Fantasyland needs serious work (except for the area around Pooh and Queen of Hearts). The expansive concrete and carnival tents feel tacky and soulless. Having proper village style facades for all the dark rides would be a good start, as well as a better transition to Haunted Mansion. <<I'll also be curious to see how they handle the backside of the Scandinavian mountain, since it will face backstage areas but will be plainly visible from the Monorail and Good Neighbor hotels.>> I don't think they've really cared about backstage areas and other sightlines visible outside the respective park. Indy and Raging Spirits are only minimally themed on the backside if I remember correctly. Maybe they will make an exception here since the monorail travels so close, but they probably consider it more economical to spend on what guests in the park see.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Here are some photos that show the backside of the Indy building and Raging Spirits. Although these aerials have a different angle than what's visible on the ground, they get the point across: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thethemeparkguy.com/park/disney-sea/raging-spirits-roller-coaster-next-to-indiana-jones-big.jpg">http://www.thethemeparkguy.com...-big.jpg</a> <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.thethemeparkguy.com/park/disney-sea/this-structure-houses-the-indiana-jones-dark-ride-big.jpg">http://www.thethemeparkguy.com...-big.jpg</a> Other than the uneven top, they mostly look like generic walls on generic buildings. Additionally, they aren't much taller than the treeline so they're easy to overlook. I'm not sure that a mountain would be able to blend in as easily. The pyramid temple on the Indy façade has stonework on all sides, which makes me think they specifically considered the out-of-park sightlines, but that just doesn't seem practical for a mountain, which would require more land than a temple atop a building, and would presumably have a much larger surface area Then again, the backside of TOT is covered in brick and has some (minimal) details on it, so I guess anything is possible <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://towersecrets.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/tokyo_disneysea_tower_of_terror_back_side.jpg">http://towersecrets.com/wp-con...side.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By FerretAfros Also, searching online for all of these photos makes me want to go back to TDR... ...sigh...
Originally Posted By NGrey << that just doesn't seem practical for a mountain, which would require more land than a temple atop a building, and would presumably have a much larger surface area>> The only other mountain that is up against the side of the park is Splash Mountain. I can't find any pictures of the backside, but I'm betting it is a flat warehouse type building based on pictures of the Frontierland backstage areas at MK. That being said, it is possible we could see them completely theme the backside to look like a real mountain. I imagine they will eventually go beyond the berm and use the parking lots behind TDS. It would be crucial to have fully themed sightlines if they expand the port into that small parking lot behind the monorail.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'm pleasantly surprised that the TDS addition will have a generic Scandinavian theme, with just a portion of it devoted to Frozen. That's more than can be said about the Norway pavilion at Epcot, despite a very different park mission. I'm also surprised it will be about the same size as the Arabian Coast, since I didn't think there was that much room over there>> I think you'd be surprised at the size of the expansion pad. You should be able to see it on Google Maps. The area can comfortably accommodate 3 Indys once it has been regraded. It won't impact the Resort Line. Although Frozen will dominate the land I'm delighted that OLC agreed to position it as a Nordic port. It is more in keeping with the wider narratives of the park. It was always a shame that the original Phase II with the Greece/Hercules theme never made it into development as it would have been a great addition. However this is a very good compromise.
Originally Posted By leemac <<When they say the "Period of Introduction" is "After fiscal 2017", what does that mean as far as when they expect these projects to be completed?>> Fantasyland will be in staggered stages. Fiscal 2017 ended March 31, 2017 so you can expect some elements to begin to come online for the 35th anniversary. This is the largest ever construction project to occur inside any berm. Significantly larger and more complex than the work done on MK. At least at MK the construction teams had the ability to bring equipment in through the backstage area. There isn't much room at BOH to do that a TDL. A lot of kit will need to be lifted into the park from the parking lot. It is going to be a logistical nightmare.
Originally Posted By leemac <<From the concept art, it looks like this area may span the waterway. I guess that means that it will take over the area currently occupied by the Hangar Stage. That area is fairly nondescript at the moment, so it wouldn't be too hard to change the theme, though the quick transitions to Port Discovery and Lost River Delta could be interesting. I know Mystic Rhythms was set to (already has?) close and be replaced by another show, so this could be what's taking its place>> Your orientation is out by a smidge. This doesn't affect Hangar Stage or the bridge reaching across to the southern edge of Indy. There is a small piece of nondescript tarmac between Port Discovery and Lost River Delta that will be transformed. There is currently a vending cart there. Hangar Stage isn't going anywhere. Live entertainment is too popular at TDS to remove venues. At least at the moment.
Originally Posted By leemac <<For selfish reasons, I hope they do not replace a high quality production for a basic sing-along. Saw it once at DCA and have zero desire to ever see it again. Now a Frozen-themed musical I would happily accept.>> The funny thing is that TDS was supposed to have a musical based on The Snow Queen about 10 years ago. Menken and Slater had written 6 songs, the show had been fully designed and was ready to go when OLC got cold feet and pulled the plug (and wasted several million dollars in the process). <<TDR tends to cycle through its entertainment fairly regularly (Mystic Rhythms being an exception)>> I guess it depends on your definition of "regularly". The Broadway Theater has only had 2 shows in its 13 year existence and there is no plans to switch out Big Bang Beat. Mermaid lasted 12 years, the Cape Cod show is on its second incarnation etc. Sure that is more regular than the US parks - and particularly WDW that keeps shows like B&B forever. TDR used to change shows regularly - doesn't happen since they brought in special events so that is the trade-off. I just wish One Man's Dream II would be put out of its misery. I'll never understand the popularity of that turd.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Fantasyland could use a pricier table service place though. >> Amen. Table service at TDL isn't even close to the quality and service at the TDS counterparts. There is also gaping holes in both Fantasyland and the westside of TDS for table service. The whole expansion of Mermaid Lagoon, Lost River Delta and Arabian Coast has decent counter serve but no full service location.
Originally Posted By Mr X Maybe they want you to go over to Ikspiari. ;p (that's what we always do, rather than pay the steep price table for tiny portions in the parks)
Originally Posted By leemac <<It looks like it will extend "beyond the berm" of the existing park>> The plans for TDL have evolved slightly since they were first announced back in October. The Fantasyland expansion is now extending beyond the berm into the parking lot. There is also new BOH there. It will narrow the parking lot considerably between the TDL berm and the Sunroute Plaza & TB Maihama Hotel.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I'll also be curious to see how they handle the backside of the Scandinavian mountain>> There is no requirement to make the park views of the Official Hotels "pretty" - you will be able to see the show building beneath the mountain and the castle. Tower of Terror was the anomaly but it is a lot easier to extend the architecture of a building down to the ground level. The Resort Liner makes it impossible to theme 360 degrees on the American Waterfront side of the park as you still need the cast access etc.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>This is the largest ever construction project to occur inside any berm. Significantly larger and more complex than the work done on MK. At least at MK the construction teams had the ability to bring equipment in through the backstage area. There isn't much room at BOH to do that a TDL. A lot of kit will need to be lifted into the park from the parking lot. It is going to be a logistical nightmare.<< That sounds really exciting! As an engineer, I think I like watching how everything is built just as much (or more) as the final product itself. I knew it was big, but I didn't realize that the project was *that* big. Is is bigger than the work at DCA? That covered many areas of the park, but most of the projects (excluding Carsland and Buena Vista Street) were relatively minor cosmetic changes. Sounds like this will be an exciting few years at TDR! >>I just wish One Man's Dream II would be put out of its misery. I'll never understand the popularity of that turd.<< When I saw it last summer, I was kind of surprised by it. Given that it's been running for well over a decade, and is the sequel to another stage show, I had assumed that it was going to be a really elaborate production, but there seemed to be a lot of odd choices made. Although it had a large cast (and an even more impressive number of quick costume changes and huge numbers of random characters), there seemed to be some scenes with no backdrop to speak of, and several dated parts like the Bug's Life sequence. Overall it was a lot of fun, but I can't imagine sitting through it again any time soon
Originally Posted By leemac <<Maybe they want you to go over to Ikspiari. ;p>> Their finance guys definitely wouldn't you to do so! All that lost revenue to third parties. Tsk tsk. TDL is taking a serious look at the dining options in-park. Lucky Nugget Cafe being turned into a two-storey location with Meet n Greet is the immediate priority but the changes in Fantasyland will redress the balance. As the guest demographic has aged the park just hasn't kept up and continues to offer the type of kid-friendly fatty food that you expect from the US parks. It needs to realign itself more with its attendance base. As a vegetarian I find TDL to be very poor indeed. Just very poor - particularly for counter serve.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Is is bigger than the work at DCA? >> Yup. Far bigger. The logistical issues are immense - trying to keep the park operational. Tomorrowland will become a dead-end, a narrow pathway will need to be maintained for access to ToonTown and the rest of the southern side of Fantasyland is being repositioned. Plus almost no backstage area to work with. It is going to be a massive tessellating puzzle. It is a frightening prospect for any CM/PM.
Originally Posted By NGrey <<Amen. Table service at TDL isn't even close to the quality and service at the TDS counterparts. There is also gaping holes in both Fantasyland and the westside of TDS for table service.>> Does this mean Be Our Guest is still planned? I was hoping that BatB art was for an attraction. Their earlier press release in October also showed a new table service place overlooking the parade route that was "under consideration". I don't think they would build two full-service restaurants in such close proximity. << The whole expansion of Mermaid Lagoon, Lost River Delta and Arabian Coast has decent counter serve but no full service location.>> I assume the new port will have a sit-down place? It seems a no-brainer to have some kind of formal dining in the Arendelle castle. From the art, it seems like quite a large building that I hope it at least gets a worthy facility or even a walkthrough attraction.
Originally Posted By NGrey <<There is no requirement to make the park views of the Official Hotels "pretty" - you will be able to see the show building beneath the mountain and the castle.>> I'm surprised at how big the show building is. Is this just to contain the rumored dark ride, or will it contain multiple facilities? I don't see any other attraction in the concept art, so I assume they are mostly hidden from sight. I hope the mountain won't be as tall as Mt. Prometheus, or it may become too visible from other parts of the park.
