Originally Posted By leemac <<What about a live show like at DHS? I imagine it would be insanely popular given the IP and based on the success of other stage shows at the resort.>> The problem with rubberhead shows is that only Showbase has the ability to properly absorb both the waiting crowds and seated guests. OLC isn't anti-live entertainment like WDW Co. but it is very challenging which is why they prefer parades where the performance corridor can absorb guest numbers. Even the Castle Stage isn't ideal. You can't cycle through 18m guests annually for any stage show so it is getting the right balance in your menu planning. I think we were all surprised that the Cinderella's Fairy Tale Hall has managed to operate successfully i.e. without massive lines. I'm not sure if the interactive elements like Sorcerer's Workshop could handle demand at TDL.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>I think we were all surprised that the Cinderella's Fairy Tale Hall has managed to operate successfully i.e. without massive lines.<< It was one of the longest (if not the longest) queues I waited in last summer, around 45 minutes. Although it was a pleasant walkthough, we were kind of surprised that there was no 'there' there. The big draw for us was that it was inside the castle and had some nice views of Fantasyland, but that was really it I can't imagine how long the queue would be if had been something more worthwhile there
Originally Posted By leemac <<Although it was a pleasant walkthough, we were kind of surprised that there was no 'there' there.>> I'm probably bias - but I still think it is a gem of an attraction. People may lament the loss of the Mystery Tour but this is more appropriate for TDL's audience today. I can watch guest reaction to Gus and Jacques' appearance in the panelled room all day long. You only ever queued 45 minutes in the summer?!?! I'm guessing you either used FP or skipped stuff. Splash is regularly at 180 minutes in the summer.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros We used FP to get out of some of the longer waits (specifically, Splash, Space, and Big Thunder), but I don't think we saw any posted waits above ~90 minutes. Maybe we were there during a somewhat quiet period (end of the Star Festival/beginning of the summer seasonal promotion), but it all seemed quite manageable in the grand scheme of things I think over our 3 days, we were able to do all of the attractions and major shows in both parks at least once. We did use some strategy (getting to the parks about an hour before opening, having a plan of attack) but mostly we just roamed the parks. I think that some guests spent a little extra time with the brand new seasonal entertainment offerings, but it didn't seem like those were so popular that they would have significantly impacted the attraction queues
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>I can watch guest reaction to Gus and Jacques' appearance in the panelled room all day long.<< That was a great little surprise! My friends had moved on to the next room before seeing it, but I was moving a little slower and I got to see them pop out a couple times. Very fun detail!
Originally Posted By NGrey <<OK. I'm surprised he knew about Norway coming to TDS in September as it was a relatively late decision to execute it at the same time as the Fantasyland expansion. Originally the thinking was to hold off for TDS's 20th in 2021.>> I'd think they need the Frozen port open around the same time as NFL, or TDL will be overwhelmed capacity-wise. It will be interesting to see how attendance is affected after these plans are completed. You posted earlier that Frozen is "monumentally popular" in Japan, but it remains to be seen if the IP has the same lasting power as the more classic animated films. I'm sure the Frozen sequel will help and no doubt the new port will be overwhelmingly crowded when it opens.
Originally Posted By NGrey <<All of the other stuff was known in October when we made the announcement (albeit at the end of the month).>> I'm not saying he was the first to know the details, just that there's no way somebody without inside connections could have guessed all that correctly. Even after the announcement at the end of October, all we had was some vague concept art of NFL. Many fans believed the BatB area was a clone from MK, with BoG going behind the castle. Many thought they saw SDMT in the art too, but that was clearly not the case.
Originally Posted By NGrey <<You can't cycle through 18m guests annually for any stage show so it is getting the right balance in your menu planning.>> Have they decided on the exact facilities going into each area at this point? Their press release mentions a decision sometime in 2015 and I imagine before D23 in Tokyo. On a side note about entertainment, what is going on with Fantasmic at the moment? It seems to have been scaled back considerably starting April 1 (including pyro), and people are speculating that the missing barges are undergoing construction for preparation of a 15th Anniversary upgrade or maybe related to a Mythica replacement?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Many fans believed the BatB area was a clone from MK, with BoG going behind the castle. Many thought they saw SDMT in the art too, but that was clearly not the case.>> "Many fans" being the foamers on WDWMagic? That's just extrapolation as it is themed to Beauty and the Beast. I'm not sure how they saw the mine train - I don't recall anything even close to it in the October art work but I've not looked recently.
Originally Posted By leemac <<You posted earlier that Frozen is "monumentally popular" in Japan, but it remains to be seen if the IP has the same lasting power as the more classic animated films. I'm sure the Frozen sequel will help and no doubt the new port will be overwhelmingly crowded when it opens.>> It is insanely popular - Japan suffers from the same merchandise shortages that have been seen elsewhere though. If you heard the gasps of joy when Once Upon A Time debuted with the short Frozen scene at the end you'd understand the popularity. The revised version has also been crazy busy hence the extension. I don't think this is like Pooh or Stitch - I think this one will continue to be a sensation in Japan. They have been screaming out for a princess that they could accept to join the classics - Princess and the Frog failed in Japan, Tangled was popular but Frozen is up there with the most popular princesses. One of the problems is that TDS doesn't have capacity issues - it is bang on the money. TDL is under-capacity which is why the Fantasyland extension is so critical to the long term plans for the park. OLC could have probably gone another 10 years without a new Port of Call but this is the clearest way to boost attendance. Most of the necessary renovations have now taken place (Sinbad, Mermaid) and the recent additions haven't really driven attendance like ToT, Midway Mania, Turtle Talk etc. Only Stormrider now needs a change and that will come in due course anyhow. This is a sufficiently big project that it will have a wow factor. In hindsight OLC made the wrong call with ToT and Raging Spirits after TDS opened in '01. It was nearly $500m for the two and they didn't have the attendance impact that it was expected to do. It just isn't appealing to TDR's core fanbase. That is why you aren't seeing any more thrill rides at the parks.
Originally Posted By leemac <<Have they decided on the exact facilities going into each area at this point? Their press release mentions a decision sometime in 2015 and I imagine before D23 in Tokyo. >> Everything is now in place and OLC approved. It can still change but it is 99% certain now. I'm pretty stoked with the whole thing - OLC have been very conservative recently but it has been building up to this plan. It is a "go big or go home" strategy. I don't think we have announced anything new at either of the D23 Japan conventions. The next major announcement will be with the first half results at the end of October so just before D23.
Originally Posted By leemac <<On a side note about entertainment, what is going on with Fantasmic at the moment? It seems to have been scaled back considerably starting April 1 (including pyro), and people are speculating that the missing barges are undergoing construction for preparation of a 15th Anniversary upgrade or maybe related to a Mythica replacement?>> My understanding it is cost cutting. No-one likes F! (guests, cast and OLC management) but it can't be axed just yet after such a high capitalisation cost. There are currently no concrete plans to replace Mythica. OLC have considered some concepts but they don't like the operating costs for lagoon shows. The lagoon is a double-edged sword - perfectly scaled for Med Harbor and Prometheus but a bitch to fill for a parade. Water Carnival never did it. Mythica achieved that but with a huge budget and massive staffing costs.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>It just isn't appealing to TDR's core fanbase. That is why you aren't seeing any more thrill rides at the parks.<< As much as I like thrill rides myself, I'm excited by the possibilities of some family-friendly big-budget E-tickets. It's been a long time since a new one was introduced to any Disney park (I think the last one was Sinbad, and before that we'd have to go back to the MGM backlot tour or the EPCOT Center attractions) so I'm very interested to see what they can create for a new generation with modern technology
Originally Posted By NGrey <<One of the problems is that TDS doesn't have capacity issues - it is bang on the money. TDL is under-capacity which is why the Fantasyland extension is so critical to the long term plans for the park. >> Just to clarify, do you mean that TDL is not attracting the number of guests OLC wishes or that there are not enough existing attractions to accommodate the existing crowd level? <<Only Stormrider now needs a change and that will come in due course anyhow.>> I will not miss it. It's a pretty small piece of real estate though. I'm guessing it will just be a new film rather than something entirely different? <<This is a sufficiently big project that it will have a wow factor.>> In terms of cost, is this going to be bigger than NFL at TDL? A few people have tossed a massive $400 million figure for the Frozen E-ticket, which sounds ridiculous even by Disney standards.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>No-one likes F! (guests, cast and OLC management) but it can't be axed just yet after such a high capitalisation cost.<< Why doesn't the cast like it? Is it related to the difficulties of staging a large-scale production so close to when the trains shut down? Given how relatively-early the parks close year-round to get CMs on the trains, I could see this being a huge headache. But other than that, I can't really think of a reason that they wouldn't like it; from my understanding the DLR and WDW cast members in their respective shows love it, so I assumed that the TDR folks felt the same I can see why the guests don't like it; it just falls flat in comparison to the other versions. In addition to the difficulties of staging a show in that venue, the pacing of it seems very strange, with longer breaks between the big full-cast moments than the US versions. I know some of that was due to the way the barges are used, and some was to introduce other characters and to showcase the video screen, but it just made an overall awkward show. Given the length of the show, I expected a few more 'big' moments in it
Originally Posted By NGrey <<My understanding it is cost cutting. No-one likes F! (guests, cast and OLC management) but it can't be axed just yet after such a high capitalisation cost.>> I'm surprised by this. I thought it was quite well-received, especially compared to BraviSEAmo. Seeing how huge Fantasmic is state side, I expected the Japanese to embrace it just as strongly. Quite shocked they have plans to axe it. Even BraviSEAmo lasted 7 years. I know they had plans to add World of Color at one point, but it seems that wouldn't be a good fit either despite minimal staffing costs.
Originally Posted By NGrey <<As much as I like thrill rides myself, I'm excited by the possibilities of some family-friendly big-budget E-tickets. It's been a long time since a new one was introduced to any Disney park (I think the last one was Sinbad, and before that we'd have to go back to the MGM backlot tour or the EPCOT Center attractions) so I'm very interested to see what they can create for a new generation with modern technology>> I think you're forgetting about Mystic Manor or even Ratatouille. I can't remember the exact cost of Mystic Manor but probably similar to Ratatouille, which was officially 150 million Euros. Mystic Manor in particular is the best dark ride ever created in my opinion. It will be very hard to top that one.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros ^^You're right, I did forget about those. I haven't ridden either, but in my mind they're similar to Hunny Hunt. Although Hunny Hunt is really awesome, it falls short of being an E ticket to me; it more like a D++, since it's still relatively short and the Heffalump room has so little theming. From what I've seen of Mystic Manor and Ratatouille, they're themed throughout and might be slightly longer, so I think they would probably count in my book
Originally Posted By NGrey <<I haven't ridden either, but in my mind they're similar to Hunny Hunt. Although Hunny Hunt is really awesome, it falls short of being an E ticket to me; it more like a D++, since it's still relatively short and the Heffalump room has so little theming. From what I've seen of Mystic Manor and Ratatouille, they're themed throughout and might be slightly longer, so I think they would probably count in my book>> Agreed on the level of theming, but Hunny Hunt is an E-ticket in my book just for its sheer innovation and amazing tech (especially for a 15-year old ride). I would definitely place it higher than Ratatouille, which is too screen heavy for me. The Paris miniland and queue are wonderfully themed though.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***It's been a long time since a new one was introduced to any Disney park*** You don't consider Monsters Inc. an e-ticket? I certainly think it's up there.
