Originally Posted By EmmaJayne I think they have merged the two 'reds' or that's definitely what this episode alluded to.. And I feel that most people don't know a whole lot about Rose Red to get to fired up over it.. I hadn't considered him being one of the Grimms but that could be a great twist.. I'm now confused about the state of the book as well.. I know they ripped out the final pages, so perhaps they burned part of it and we were shown the other? I'm surprises that Regina doesn't seem more alarmed about Henry having basically figured the whole thing out.. Especially since things in Storybrooke have been changing, I'm waiting for some kind of panic attack scene from her..
Originally Posted By amazedncal2 When Red appeared DH said "is that Rose Red" and I said "nope, Red Riding Hood." It never occurred to me that she would be merged but thanks for the thought When the dwarf died DH said "and then there were 7" Did anyone else think "hey she is the same size as the dwarfs, just like the statues in Disneyland" ? I think little things like these will keep us watching. At least for awhile.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb If I remember correctly, only the pages concerning Emma were destroyed, not the entire book.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb My thoughts on why Regina isn't happy. Happiness isn't solely dependent on circumstance. Unless the circumstance is truly tragic a generally happy person will manage some level of happiness most or at least much of the time. The Evil Queen does not understand this aspect of human nature (I suspect Rumplestilskin knows this, however). She probably set up the spell for the circumstances she believed would make her happy and the others miserable. She believed being to most powerful person around and taking power from the others, as well as separating them from loved ones would make her happy and leave the others miserable. But as we all know, getting what we want is no guarantee of happiness. Since she is basically an unhappy person, no circumstantial change will give her the happiness she hoped for.
Originally Posted By EmmaJayne ^^ that also kind of works for why not all of the characters seem so unhappy.. Which is my biggest complaint. Truly she could have done a lot worse to make them perpetually miserable.. Some like Hansel and Gretl or Ashley seem unhappy, maybe Ruby a little but Mary Margaret seemed ok most of the time, she certainly looks happy with her class, others too.. But it makes sense kind of that she doesn't properly grasp happiness etc and believed this would be her victory over them all.. Though I still maintain that unless there's another huge twist, it hardly seems the curse to end all curses... The fact they can't remember what they are missing and believe that things will change means they aren't as miserable as they could be. Also, have to say how 'blah' I found this weeks episode, not good coming off the weak hansel and Gretl one.. Hopefully it picks up again next week.. Also did anyone else realize the boat Snow met Rumpel in is the one we've seen hangin on the roof of Mr. Gold's shop..
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I think you guys have hit on what I have been thinking for a while. Everyone is either unhappy, miserable or living a lie. They were all unhappy. And Regina through her misery is the savior. She is the one who paid the ultimate price. She had to destroy the thing you love the most. No one was going to have a happily ever after, too many deals with Rumple. I think in the end it is going to be Regina who is the big hero. The only way for that too happen was going to be through evil. Evil begets evil. Only something evil could eliminate the deals made with Rumple. Even Rumple was consumed by evil. And Regina was the only one malaigned enough to cast the spell to bring them all into the future. It is more or less a not so complex number of circumstances to bring them all to the final culmination which I believe is going to be everyone, including Regina's happy ever after.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom The bigger question is how do you end it? And again I am harboring my own thoughts. I know how I would do it. I have no idea how the writers are going to do it.
Originally Posted By EmmaJayne 'Only something evil could eliminate the deals made with Rumple' But didn't many of these deals last into the new world/life.. eg Cinerella/Ashley was still without her prince, handing over her baby, Regina still does what Mr. Gold wants as long as he says 'please' and so on. Whilst I agree I think they will all ultimately end up happier in the present world, I still don't feel that Regina is there saviour.. I still think Rumple is the ultimate puppet master and Regina only believes she is in control. After all, it was his curse.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<But didn't many of these deals last into the new world/life.>> Yes they did. But only in the new world/life can they be fixed. There was no chance of them being fixed in the enchanted forest. <<Cinerella/Ashley was still without her prince,>> She was but that was circumstances and never part of curse. In Storybrooke at end of the episode with Cinderella/Ashley, they were together and got to keep the baby because of a deal Emma made with Gold. So they got their happily ever after. <<Regina still does what Mr. Gold wants as long as he says 'please'.>> She does but that is part of the curse. She had to make a deal to find out how to activate the curse "the thing you love the most". <<Whilst I agree I think they will all ultimately end up happier in the present world,>> I agree. <<I still don't feel that Regina is there saviour>> And you could be right. But, I'm convinced she is the savior. Clearly that was not her intent. She wants to make them all miserable. But there was no way anyone of them was ever going to get a happily ever after in the enchanted forest. Something big and evil was going to have to happen. Hense, the curse with the epic trigger, "the thing you love the most". When you think about it she was cursed too. Because in Storybrooke nothing was ever going to change, and had not until Emma came to town. I more or less view Regina's character to be like a quasi-like gollum from the Lord of the Rings Trilogy. Someone who started out in life good. But became maligned and evil over the course of their life. I think maligned is the key word here. Regina didn't become evil through a curse. And she wasn't tricked into it like Rumple, who in an instant was consumed by evil (they even showed his face in horror when he knew it was about to happen). Nope Regina is the poor little rich girl. The kid who should have grown up and had it all. But through circumstances, all we know is Snow White told a secret that, changed everything. <<I still think Rumple is the ultimate puppet master and Regina only believes she is in control. After all, it was his curse.>> Rumple is consumed by evil. There is still a man there. A man that lost his son. A man feared by his son because he is controled by evil. Emma is the one in control. She is independent of the curse. Her mere presence breaks the curse. She kissed the Sheriff and he remembered everything. It is Regina's curse. She got it from Maleficent. We don't know how Maleficent got it. And we surmise it came from Rumple, since he seems to be the root of all evil.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<And we surmise it came from Rumple, since he seems to be the root of all evil.>> Well, not all evil. Not like Regina who is a maligned evil. Which is a different kind of evil, because she doesn't have to be evil and at anytime is capable of great good. Which I think is the ultimate point. And if you explained to Regina that they were all either, doomed through bad deals, miserable, or living a lie ( Prince Charming is the one living a lie, because he isn't really a prince and had a twin brother who was the "real" prince charming. He's a stand in ). Again if you were to explain this to Regina, she would understand that her curse inadvertently and ultimately saved them all. She is an unlikely savior.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox OK, time to play devil's advocate. While on the surface KT's reasonings make sense, they still don't jive completely with Regina's cemetary vault. How many hearts does she hold in the vault? How did she get these hearts to control? Will she do the same to anyone else from Storybrooke who crosses her path again? The two big question marks still left hanging are Regina's vault and what Mr. Gold was digging up or burying in the forest. I wonder if they're connected somehow?
Originally Posted By FerretAfros <<And we surmise it came from Rumple, since he seems to be the root of all evil.>> Is he though? While he definitely doesn't seem to be 'good', he also doesn't appear to have a malicious intent. He's tricky and doesn't tell the details that aren't asked, but he doesn't go seeking/creating problems (other than the incident in the election). He seems more to be a dealer of magic, where the individuals create their own ultimate demise. I think it creates a much more complex dynamic, where instead of having an evil person, there is evil within each person, waiting to get out.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb Looks like we'll find out more about R next week . I am sure everyone saw the "twist" at the end well in advance. Far too predictable unless they pull a twist on the twist latet this season, which I doubt.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <He seems more to be a dealer of magic, where the individuals create their own ultimate demise.> Althought, I agree with that statement. That certainly was not the case for the Duke or his men, whom Rumple all killed in a matter of mere seconds. Rumple has a knack for always showing up anywhere at the right time to conduct his "diry deals". Mr Gold doesn't operate like that. Gold is cunning. Maybe Gold doesn't have to be as devious as Rumple. Afterall, the Evil Queen made a deal that in the next world Gold would be provided for, he owns the town. <I think it creates a much more complex dynamic, where instead of having an evil person, there is evil within each person, waiting to get out.> I agree. Or in Rumple's case evil is waiting to get in.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<I am sure everyone saw the "twist" at the end well in advance. Far too predictable unless they pull a twist on the twist latet this season, which I doubt.>> This show is making me long for Flash Forward, which I guess required too much thinking on the part of the audience, hence it's cancellation after one season. I don't see this series continuing beyond one season, at least not as compelling 'must see' storytelling. It's dragging along, and becoming more predictable as AD posted. This could have and should have been a five-part mini-series of two-hour episodes. I feel like we're being forced to watch 'filler fluff' in order to justify a full season weekly series. If the story doesn't start to smarten up soon, I'm gone.
Originally Posted By EmmaJayne ^^ that's how I feel.. There was probably enough for a solid 8 hours but now it's been fleshe out with a lot if weaker story.. I didn't find this weeksparticularly entertaining.. I've enjoyed some of the back story episodes,particularly Jiminy's but seething just seemed off with this one.. All the scenes in fairy tale land felt really forced to me.. I felt as though I was watching a low budget program from my childhood.. I can't quite put my finger on it but it felt rushed and cheap. Plus it didn't give us any further clues as to why EQ hates Snow. I also didnt like that the man in the mirror was the Genie.. Will they tie him into Aladdin in another episode as well or just leave it? This is the 3rd week in a row the Once Upon a Time has left me feeling frustrated!!
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom All in all I thought it was one of the better episodes. Really good backstory on Snow White's father. Good backstory on the Evil Queen and the mirror. I also think we might also have been given the set up as to how this will ultimately end. The Genie's wish was that they would be together forever. What means that is something was to happen to Sidney, like if he was to die. Then perhaps Regina would experience the same fate. The way the backstory played it made it look like it was the Genie stuck to be with the Evil Queen. But the wish also commits the Evil Queen to the majic mirror as well. Anyway just a thought. Who knows what the writers are doing here. And this relentless which hunt (pun intended) Regina keeps doing on Emma is getting a bit long in the tooth.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb You're probably finding the virtual sets off-putting. I understand that having the interiors CG is the most economical and ecological way to portray the fairy tale world, but the tech isn't quite there yet. I have the same "take me out of the reality" issue with Sanctuary. I think holding this show to the same standard as LOST and the same promise as Flash Forward is just setting one's self up for disappointment.
Originally Posted By amazedncal2 I'm liking the series so far but I'm easily entertained and tend to not think too deeply about a show. I'm not that familiar with the fairy tales/myths other than the Disney versions so that might help As a kid I HATED it when my mom would read anything that included anything scary because she would do this creepy "Mr. Nooooooobody" voice and scare the crapola out of me. So likely the Grimm stories were out the window
