Originally Posted By danyoung I don't think they intentionally designed crap. But I do think they took standard carny rides, slapped a tiny bit of theming on them, and thought that would be enough to keep Disney parkgoers happy. When DCA opened, the only attraction that was unique in any way was Soarin', which was and is an incredible attraction. Even Grizzley River Run was reduced to a standard flume ride with no AA's, and really not much theming at all. I do think they actually thought "As long as we slap the Disney name on it they will come." They were proved very wrong.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Even Grizzley River Run was reduced to a standard flume ride with no AA's, and really not much theming at all. >> Adding plastic robot mannequins to every attraction does not equate to making a great attraction. I rather enjoy the GRR experience as it is -- adding fake animals along the way wouldn't particularly enhance the experience by a great deal.
Originally Posted By danyoung We'll just have to disagree on that, Goof, as well as your categorization of AA figures as "plastic robot mannequins". This ride could have told a terrific story, similar to the style of Splash. As is, it just seems like it belongs in 6 Flags, not Disney.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Interesting to note, out of the 4 White Water Raft rides here in Southern California, three of them are themed to a wilderness theme, with trees, rocks and caves (SFMM, Knott's and DCA). The fourth, Shipwreck Rapids at SeaWorld San Diego actually tells a story. Starting with a themed queue, then passing artifacts from a shipwreck, live animals, including large Sea Turtles, then entering the hull of a ship thru a hole. It also features a waterfall that is turned on on hot days, but magically turns off just before you enter it on average or cold days. There are additional story elements inside the ship. And of course, it is Popeye & Bluto's Bilge-Rat Barges at IOA that is the best of the White Water Raft attractions... <a href="http://www.thrillride.com/bilgeratbarges/barges.html" target="_blank">http://www.thrillride.com/bilg eratbarges/barges.html</a> Very detailed themed queue, multiple characters, either static or basic AA's, but with soundtracks that have the characters talking, such as Olive Oyl saying "Save Me, Popeye!". It shows that you can theme a raft ride and add a great storyline.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Interesting to note, out of the 4 White Water Raft rides here in Southern California, three of them are themed to a wilderness theme, with trees, rocks and caves (SFMM, Knott's and DCA). >> Have you ever been whitewater rafting somewhere other than the wilderness? I've done a bit of rafting, and don't recall it ever happening in an environment other than the wilderness. Of course, maybe we should just add cartoon characters to everything! Yeah, that solves everything. More cartoon characters! Give me a break.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Post 401 talked about how you could THEME a raft ride. Two parks have done it quite well, adding themed story telling elements to the attraction, one with NO Cartoon characters. But then, the other 3 raft rides in SoCal, including GRR have no story line, just going past artificial rock formations and trees and getting wet. I am pretty sure the folks at WDI could come up with a good story line that is Wilderness themed and plus GRR, and not use cartoon characters. But use realistic animals and maybe even a couple of humans hiking, or otherwise involved in telling a story (so they can speak to you). But what is currently there is a disappointment, starting with the lift hill that shows you wonderful views of the Parking Structure, the Convention Center and the surrounding hotels. While getting to Roaring Rapids at SFMM is a bit of a pain, with the large staircase as part of the queue, once you get onto the ride, the rest of the park is blocked out due to a berm with a large amount of trees, and it takes you to another location, out in the wilderness and away from the rest of the park. Another park that did a good job at theming a Raft Ride was the defunct MGM Adventures park in Las Vegas. The ride was basically flat, but went thru many Barns that had themed sets including basic human AA's. Most folks that Disney would be a step above the rest, but as with much of DCA, it seems to be more like something you would find at any large amusement park.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Even Grizzley River Run was reduced to a standard flume ride with no AA's, and really not much theming at all." It has a great deal of very specific theming. They may put some plastic animals along the route, but it's not going to change the ride at all. If you want to see a raft ride that is unthemed, go to a six flags type park. There, the raft ride is a cement trough in a giant cement tub of water. And of course they are going to theme this type of ride to the wilderness of some sort. What's it supposed to be themed to? A ride through midtown manhattan?
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf >>A ride through midtown manhattan?<< Why not? It could be called "The Day After Tomorrow" ride - another movie tie in - when the oceans finally rise to the point that they create torrents down Park Avenue. The aa figures could be screaming, "where's my baby?" or "damn you hummers!" - thinks of the possibilities.
Originally Posted By danyoung >It has a great deal of very specific theming. They may put some plastic animals along the route, but it's not going to change the ride at all.< I don't mean to belittle the great rockwork that Disney artists did on this ride. But other than that it's just a flume ride. Disney has done much better than that in the past, and should have on this one.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Of all the things to criticize at DCA, GRR is not it. This is just another example that some people have an axe to grind over DCA in general, and don't really have anything substantive to say. If you want to talk about unthemed messes, stick with Mulholland Madness and the Maliboomer. There's plenty of fodder for your DCA hatred there.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Grizzley River Run was reduced to a standard flume ride with no AA's, and really not much theming at all." Simply not true.
Originally Posted By jonvn "But other than that it's just a flume ride" It's not just great rockwork. It's themed specifically to the Sierras, and there's also the mill (or whatever it is I don't go often) at the beginning. It's more than just a flume ride. A simple flume ride is what you'd see, again, at a Six Flags type of park, which consists of a flume and its supports. GRR does have a specific theme, and it fills it out nicely. Could they have put an AA figure or two in there? Sure, they could have put a black bear or a deer, with about as much movement as the figures in the Matterhorn have. Because much more than that, you'll never even seen. You're rushing by very fast. Think of the figures on Big Thunder. Small details are pointless. But would that have made it themed, then? Putting in figures?
Originally Posted By jonvn " Because much more than that, you'll never even seen. " I mean "Because if you add much more than that, you'll never even see them."
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Count me as another defender of GRR. Great ride, don't get too wet, have the spinning, and the theming looks totally real. How can people criticise GRR but defend BTMRR - add AA's and they would be equal in my book.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt I wonder if the average guest even knows that BTMRR has AA. It's certainly not something I think about when I think about the ride.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo And I hate the one at IOA - might as well take a bath with my clothes on and I think the theming sucks. Different strokes. But I do like Sea World's though.
Originally Posted By Daannzzz ""Of all the things to criticize at DCA, GRR is not it"" This is one of the major things to critisize at DCA. It had the most potential to do something no one has done with a raft ride before. It could have been the BIG "E" ticket. As it is now it is a very nice "D" ticket.
Originally Posted By danyoung >This is just another example that some people have an axe to grind over DCA in general, and don't really have anything substantive to say.< Sport Goofy, that's pure crap, and borders on pissing me off. You have your opinions, I have mine, we both share them, and that's how this thing works. What I think has no more or less substance than what you think - it's just an opinion. Look, I don't hate GRR - I really enjoy it. But I think Disney could have done more with it. I think the mentality during the design phase of DCA was that less is OK, that we don't need to do our best, just do good enough. I don't hate the park by any means. But I strongly feel that Disney had the capability to do much more, and they INTENTIONALLY didn't, thinking that the Disney name would be enough.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I think Disney could have done more with it." Like what? I can think of two things. One, they could put some minimal movement figures along the ride, and two, they could have put in a gold mine section, perhaps. Other than that, it's already pretty elaborate.
