One Beeeeelion Dollars!

Originally Posted By jonvn

All parks close early in the winter. Some parks close everyday in the winterm and are only open daily in the summer.

In the off season, Disneyland used to be closed on Mondays and Tuesdays. I don't think it was a dire situation.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

"Jon, TDA did expect the place to be filled to the rafters every day when it opened. Really."

<<The problem with that idea is that it does not work out numerically with what the supposed stated projection was.

Maybe some people did hope for that, and even planned for that in case it happened, but that's not what everyone else has said.

At 7 million for the year, daily attendance would have been under 20k a day, on average. That would include days both in summer and winter. So in the summer, the numbers would be higher, and winter, lower.>>

I don't dispute your figures based on seven million. Although I'll also tell you that Disney always errs on the side of lower projections because they'll always look good that way (well, DCA, DSP and HKDL aside) ... but I will tell you from personal discussions with Cynthia, George and Mary Niven (still head of food and bev) that from summer 2000 right up until 2/01, they expected the place to be packed. They went so far as to write a CM card with ways of appeasing disappointed guests who would have to settle for DL ... REALLY!

I have no idea what the real projections were or are ... or what the real attendance was or is.

I just know TDA was expecting a grandslam home run and got an intentional walk instead.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Wow...to think that, if I'd attended the right college and met the right people (with the backing of rich family, of course)...I, too, could be royally screwing up a major corporation or even a whole industry as we speak!! Wow!>>

How about attended the any college and screwed the right people?

That's worked for many a Disney exec.

 

Originally Posted By 2001DLFan

<<jonvn: "I think even if were failing miserably they would have little choice but to fix it"

There is lots of choice. They could do like I said, expand the hotels, make a water park, some other thing like that. If it truly were doing that badly, it would be the thing a corporation does. >>


Jon, that is the point I’ve been trying to make, though I guess I wasn’t clear. If the efforts they make, with whatever their investment is, fails to change the public’s attitude towards the park (baggage), they would need to make some major shift in the direction the park takes. The baggage I speak of is that, no matter what they do with the park under it’s current moniker, people will continue to associate it with the original underperforming park.

If they actually converted it into another form, even if they retained a good portion of the environment, they could evolve it into an inviting destination. Your suggestion of adding a hotel and water park could be included, not necessarily replacing the existing park, but adding to and enhancing it.

Some way of turning the park into a kind of Super Downtown Disney could break the former attitude towards the park.

The reason that some of the restaurants failed to survive was due to the price of a quality meal being on top of the park admission. Most people just weren’t willing to face that kind of expense.

The elements that failed at the start: the Mondavi Winery/Restaurant, and Wolfgang Puck’s restaurant, and those that closed in ensuing years: Hollywood & Dine, the ABC Soap Opera Bistro and Lucky Fortune Cookery, could all see some kind of resurgence if a different approach was taken with the park.

The Hyperion Theater, with some rework, could be turned into the Broadway level theater that I think they had originally envisioned, allowing them to mount the level of performances that could actually make the company more money than the current park is able to generate now.

So, while I don’t feel that DCA in it’s current form is meeting it’s potential, with some major innovative thinking, it’s alteration could help make a real success of the DL Resort.

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

"I would say okay as opposed to fine."

Fine, okay... what is the difference?

Maybe I should clarify. What I meant by fine is that in assessing the evidence I do not believe that management is reinvesting in the place because it is "in trouble", "a problem", or some other bleak scenario as some here are asserting. What I think is that the place is performing well enough for management to increase its investment significantly with the believe that the returns will increase accordingly.

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

<<Oh come on, I think the Studio park in Paris is much more of a half-assed attempt. Give it that, at least.>>

I like DCA. Liked it more at opening, so you're talking to someone witha bias.

But DSP is an absolute embarrassment as a park. It does have 3-4 quality attractions (unique ones at that), but there is no there there. It has the feeling of what I imagine a Disney Regional venture will look like. Something designed cheaply. Something very basic and plain. Something that you can't possibly spend more than three hours (four if you eat and it will have to be quick serve because they didn't put one full serve locale in the tiny place) before you head across the plaza to the amazing DLP.

DCA looks like the best theme park on earth compared to DSP. DCA may not have soul yet, but it has a good vibe. DSP just feels ... well ... empty.

 

Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt

belief

 

Originally Posted By Spirit of 74

Have I mentioned recently that DCA saved DL?

That albatross ... that heroin monkey on DL's back (to quote the immortal Al Lutz).

Every amazing thing that's coming to Anaheim over the next decade is a direct result of DCA turning the property into a multi-day destination instead of a one-day vist.

So when you're staying or dining in one of the new resorts ... or riding one of the great new attractions at DCA AND DL (don't worry Jon, I still think Lone Ranger ain't happening in any form but I;ve been wrong before ... just in the past hour actually!) ... or staying in a DVC Villa ... or viewing an amazing nighttime spectacular that will have guests leaving DL FOR DCA for a change ... or just safely walking around a garden like Harbor Blvd ... well, you can again repeat 'DCA SAVED DL!'

I just love saying this because even though I know the place had/has many, many faults, I also know that it has paved the way for so much more that's coming. (heck, some of it isn't even tied to Pixar films!)

And the DCA haters know it too ... they're just way too pigheaded to admit it.

 

Originally Posted By gadzuux

Well, allow me to split hairs.

It was the resort expansion that 'saved' DL, to use your overheated terminology. DCA was the weakest link in the expansion, easily surpassed by GCH and DTD in viability and profitability.

The park itself ended up being the tail of the pup when it should have been the centerpiece - the "main event". All of the trimmings around the perimeter areas - harbor, katella, the new 'disney way', the freeway connectors, the garage - were all underwritten by various government agencies based on the belief that the park was going to be an enormous success.

It wasn't. Fortunately, the original disneyland park began a process of resurgence building up to the fiftieth, and both DTD and GCH were an immediate hit with the public.

So I'd say the expansion in it's entirety moved DLR to a better position for growth, but it was in spite of DCA and it's inherent weaknesses, not because of DCA.

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

^And don't forget the Convention Center expansion, which grew over 40% and opened at about the same time as DCA did. It has brought a lot of out of towners and additional business, especially to the Hotels in Anaheim and Garden Grove.

 

Originally Posted By dshyates

"All parks close early in the winter. Some parks close everyday in the winterm and are only open daily in the summer."

Thus the off season. And even though some parks closes all winter, it is not indicative af non-success. Like Cedar Point. And if it were -25 degrees and DCA was coverd in 6' of snow that would be a success unrelated closure.

"In the off season, Disneyland used to be closed on Mondays and Tuesdays. I don't think it was a dire situation."

This was a while back right. Before DLR was a year-around international destination resort. And I don't think that a 6pm close time is "dire". But I do believe that Disney considers it a serious problem. They lost their 2 highest profile parteners because they had to close the park before the lucritive Dinner hours resulting in Wolfgand and Mondavi bailing 7 months after opening. I do believe Disney is not satisfied with having to close the park early. Yes I do understand the off-season. and that even successful parks will shorten the hours during it. A 6pm close time for a second gate is unprecedented. What would happen at WDW if people showed up at EPCOT at 6pm and the place was shuttered. No Dinners, No Illuminations. Just a stupid moose thanking you for coming.

 

Originally Posted By WorldDisney

Wow, I just spent two days back at the greatest resort ever Tokyo Disney Resort and come back to more fighting and over a hundred more threads bickering over DCA lol. Hopefully, if that billion make DCA look anything remotely like DisneySea, these posts might die one day.....but I doubt it .

Its fun though, I like the fighting....almost make me feel like I`m married ;D.

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

>...but I will tell you from personal discussions with Cynthia, George and Mary Niven (still head of food and bev) that from summer 2000 right up until 2/01, they expected the place to be packed.<

It's statements like that that I live for! I know no one (other than my DCA CM brother who usually knows less than I do about Disney!), so I can only argue from the standpoint of this is my opinion based on what I've read. It's nice to have a close to first hand opinion to hang a hat on. Nice job, ol' dude!

 

Originally Posted By dshyates

And as for the soft evening numbers, I do believe that the "World of Color" show will do wonders. It sounds to be shaping up into a true night time spectacular. A few more things like this and a trip out west may be necessary. I haven't been since 2002, so I haven't seen Nemo yet.
Seriously we really have beat the good/bad aspects to death. The parks' not going anywhere but up from here. But you can bet there will be an arguement about everything done. I can't wait. New eye candy, rides and internet fodder. (squeals with glee)

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"If the efforts they make, with whatever their investment is, fails to change the public’s attitude towards the park (baggage), they would need to make some major shift in the direction the park takes."

What it would mean is that the idea of a multi park destination in Anaheim is not viable. But what is more likely to occur, or at least what Burbank thinks will occur, is that with additional investment, they will see additional returns.

"easily surpassed by GCH and DTD in viability and profitability."

You have to realize, though, that without DCA, there was no reason to build GCH and DTD. It all works together.

"This was a while back right. Before DLR was a year-around international destination resort. "

DL has always been an international destination. In the early 1960s, the head of the Soviet Union threw a fit because he couldn't visit the place.

This was simply back when there just wasn't enough business to keep it open on those days. It didn't mean the place was not doing well.

"I do believe Disney is not satisfied with having to close the park early. "

Someone posted the closing times of the parks in Florida, and they were about the same.

"What would happen at WDW if people showed up at EPCOT at 6pm and the place was shuttered."

They'd go do something else.

"I will tell you from personal discussions with Cynthia, George and Mary Niven (still head of food and bev) that from summer 2000 right up until 2/01, they expected the place to be packed"

Perhaps they did. But WDI didn't expect that many people, and were not projecting that, at least that's what they've said. For it to be PACKED it would have had to have 14,000,000 visit it that first year. That would have been more than how many people visited Disneyland in the previous year. That would be a completely ridiculous thing to expect.

 

Originally Posted By dshyates

"Someone posted the closing times of the parks in Florida, and they were about the same."

Only animal kingdom is closing as early as six. And that is common for that park seeing that it is dark and you can't see the animals.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

Which post was this...there are now over 600 on this thread!

The thing is that of course they want people to stay on property longer. Every hour you stay, you spend money. So the longer you stay, the more money you give them. As DCA has stuff for about 8 or so hours worth of things, if you do all of it, they will add hours of visits by adding more attractions.

Especially if the attractions they add are family friendly types of things. For us, we run out of stuff to do fairly quickly because we don't want to do most things on the pier, and we don't want to see film after film. So, a couple things here and there, and we're out.

They don't make money that way. We don't buy food there, we don't buy souvenirs, we don't buy drinks. By adding more things to the park to keep them in the park longer, it will increase profitability of the place whether or not more people actually show up to go in.

 

Originally Posted By Sport Goofy

With respect to park hours, you also have to consider that staffing problems are prevalent everywhere in the service industry right now. A large faction of employees, while they want to be full-time, don't seem to hesitate in telling their employer that they don't care to work nights, don't care to work weekends, or any other number of stipulations that make it difficult to operate a business beyond daytime working hours. In the summer, DLR has a larger pool of young cast members, kids out of school, etc. who don't care to dictate their hours. In the off-season it becomes more difficult and you find senior cast members not wanting to commit to evenings, weekends, or other inconvenient times. With a shortage of workers to fill these spots, DLR (and other service industry employers) find themselves faced with operating late with limited staff to work, or closing early to alleviate the pressure of these shortfalls. Add that to the fact that there simply aren't as many guests as the peak season, and it doesn't make sense to operate a park well into the evening when a) very few people are in the parks anyway and b) your staff doesn't want to consistently work those hours. I suppose you could throw a lot of incentive pay at the staff to entice them to work the late hours and weekends, but does that really make sense in the off season when the parks are not anywhere close to being full?

 

Originally Posted By danyoung

>What it would mean is that the idea of a multi park destination in Anaheim is not viable.<

Isn't this kinda like serving a multi-course meal of saltines, a filet mignon steak, and popsicles for dessert, and when the complaints roll in you say that I guess multi-course meals aren't viable? If they ever do close DCA down (and I find that possibility highly unlikely) it'll be because they built a park that was lacking in many ways, and the Disney park public quickly figgered that out.

 

Originally Posted By jonvn

"Isn't this kinda like serving a multi-course meal of saltines, a filet mignon steak, and popsicles for dessert, and when the complaints roll in you say that I guess multi-course meals aren't viable?"

No, because the thing that was being said was AFTER the billion or so is spent, and people still don't go to the park, what does that mean?

And after spending what would amount to at that time to be $1.8 billion, and the public didn't care for it, that'd be about all she wrote. It would kill the idea of a multi-park destination in Anaheim.