Originally Posted By bean dshyates Thu 8/23/2007 6:39a Jon you really must be a republican. You sound like tha administration's take on Iraq. "Not going as planned, yet all is well." My guess is DCA and our Iraq invasion are going about the same. But you just keep on keepin on. 597 NEW! trekkeruss Thu 8/23/2007 7:32a <<My guess is DCA and our Iraq invasion are going about the same>> You're implying the DCA will eventually fail even after they put a $1 billion dollars into it, which sounds more ridiculous than anything Jon has said. Exactly, to even compare the war in IRAQ to heresay and minor problems that have been thrown out of proportion by a handful of people that seem to think they know how things are doing within the walls of burbank is ridiculous. Besides, i do not see people dying for the sake of DCA's survival.
Originally Posted By bean dshyates "I believe they don't think it's going ok at all. While not a failure, it is a serious problem. One serious enough to warrent a major influx of cash and possibly a rebranding of the park." your so far off. In no way is the park considered a serious problem. You actually think that if that was the thinking the expansion would be spread out over ten years? Since before DCA was opened there was always plans on a large second and third phase expansion. I will be honest, it did not include some major comsetic changes to the park in some areas but this new budget will mostly be spent on attraction and not costmetic overlays. The truth is that the resort is in an upswing, DCA's attendance numbers (the real ones not the ones quoted on these boards) has consistently increased. Disney has a huge cash flow right now (which needs to be spent so that wallstreet does not start getting worried about money not being invested) and it is the right time to finally fix (yes DCA has areas that need fixing) DCA's opening image and at the same time go on with phase two of its expansion. Its also the perfect time to erase some of the mistakes done by the previous management both here and in the other parks.
Originally Posted By bean Also take this in consideration, if DCA was doing as bad as some think would Burbank and TDA be already planning the third gate? yes, the third gate is in early blue sky. In 2001, with the slowdown in tourism and the slow acceptance of DCA the third gate was put on hold. Now only six years later the third gate is back on the radar. Why would Burbank even consider a third gate if the second was such a failure as some make it out to be?
Originally Posted By bean "I belive for the most part the park is running in the black, with the exceptions of times like in the evening during the slow season. That is why they are closing early" DCA closes earlier than DCA for several reasons Just like MGM, Epcot and DAK do. DCA will most likely never close at the same time as Disneyland. The surrounding infrustructure might not be able to accept large crowds from both parks at the same time. Just notice how busy the tram area gets with Disneyland closing a couple hours later. besides that all parks close early during the slow season. The main park always maintain longer hours ,but still reduce during the off seasons. This is common in all the resorts. Notice the hours i posted earlier for WDW. Even during the still summer month of august, WDW had already cut MGM, DAK, and Epcots hours. Even the MK had shorter hours during the month and a few saturdays they closed as early as 7pm for the special ticket events.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<bean: Also take this in consideration, if DCA was doing as bad as some think would Burbank and TDA be already planning the third gate? yes, the third gate is in early blue sky. In 2001, with the slowdown in tourism and the slow acceptance of DCA the third gate was put on hold. Now only six years later the third gate is back on the radar. Why would Burbank even consider a third gate if the second was such a failure as some make it out to be?>> Disney had been gearing up for a third gate for some time before DCA opened. When that park failed to meet expectations, all third gate work was halted. As for the recent third gate rumors, some of that is based on Disney’s negotiations with Anaheim. They had promised certain growth in exchange for concession from Anaheim. Unfortunately, with the less than anticipated results from DCA, Anaheim has been looking to have Disney make good on their promises. So, while Disney has put up a huge investment to improve the DCA portion of their Disneyland Resort, they have also sparked rumors of reinitiating their third gate concepts. As they do have a lot of Imagineers on staff waiting for something to do, there is no doubt that they do have some working on ideas for their Strawberry Patch. However, there’s no telling if or when the current concepts will be executed. So, current rumors of the third gate have no relation to the relative success or failure of DCA.
Originally Posted By dshyates Bean I'm sure that the reason they are closing DCA at 6pm is so that by 10pm when DL closes they will have cleared the esplanade of the massive hordes they tossed out of DCA. Sounds right to me.
Originally Posted By dshyates "Notice the hours i posted earlier for WDW. Even during the still summer month of august, WDW had already cut MGM, DAK, and Epcots hours. Even the MK had shorter hours during the month and a few saturdays they closed as early as 7pm for the special ticket events." What I did notice was that only DAK has a 6 pm close time at that has more to do with the animals sleeping. Aug. 29th The studios closes at 6 pm. My guess is not for a special ticket event but a sale of the park for the evening like a GM private party. I know they rent 1 park per night for four nights for their employees. Bean I've worked at Kings Dominion, Universal Studios Florida, and MGM. I fully understand the concept of "the off season". But thanks for the explaination. I still stand by the assertion that the 6pm close time is prompted by soft evening numbers not traffic control issues. I do believe that that is what the World of Color is spacifically designed to address.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Bean I'm sure that the reason they are closing DCA at 6pm is so that by 10pm when DL closes . . . >> On the schedules I've seen, DL closes at 8 PM on the days when DCA closes at 6 PM. DL isn't open until 10 PM on weeknights during the off season.
Originally Posted By lesmisfan Hey bean i have heard a rumor that they want to replace the sun on the sunwheel with some sort of mickey that they will use to project stuff onto for the water show. any truth to that?
Originally Posted By bean "Bean have you been skim reading again?" yes, way to much arguing about the same thing over and over and over for the last six years. Way too many "so called experts" on these boards as if some were flies hangin around Burbanks meetings. Luckily there are a few on these boards that see things with a wider lense and see that there are many variables of what is actually going on in Anaheim. I do not understand the whole reasoning to analyze everything that is done. DCA is not an exception when it comes to problems. There has been problems with every park opened by Disney. Even one of the most beuagiful parks built "TDS" is experiencing problems that are being looked into and large somes of money in the hundreds of millions have been spent in both entertianment and attractions to make sure that the park continues to hold its numbers. These are millions that OLC had not intended on spending in the first five years of the parks opening. Attractions were pushed thru approval and construction to add to the offerings and endless entertainment changes had to be added. Even OLC has started to slow down on some of the added expenses. I have said it before and i will repeat myself. Yes DCA opened with lower than expected enthusiasm but the park is not a failure like some make it out to be. and yes there were many concerns about Disneyland future before DCA opened. At times even upper management considered moving the park to another location by removing and relocating some of its attractions. Anaheim had become the wrong environment for the park. If it was not for DCA being built Disneyland would have become stagnant. Its worse problem, Disney loyalist that feel that the park should be treated like a museum. The park is nearing its maximum growth potential and the only way to keep it viable was to add another gate. No, expanding Disneyland into the parking lot would not have been the answer. "2001DLFan Fri 8/24/2007 11:18p <<bean: Also take this in consideration, if DCA was doing as bad as some think would Burbank and TDA be already planning the third gate? yes, the third gate is in early blue sky. In 2001, with the slowdown in tourism and the slow acceptance of DCA the third gate was put on hold. Now only six years later the third gate is back on the radar. Why would Burbank even consider a third gate if the second was such a failure as some make it out to be?>> Disney had been gearing up for a third gate for some time before DCA opened. When that park failed to meet expectations, all third gate work was halted. As for the recent third gate rumors, some of that is based on Disney’s negotiations with Anaheim. They had promised certain growth in exchange for concession from Anaheim. Unfortunately, with the less than anticipated results from DCA, Anaheim has been looking to have Disney make good on their promises. So, while Disney has put up a huge investment to improve the DCA portion of their Disneyland Resort, they have also sparked rumors of reinitiating their third gate concepts. As they do have a lot of Imagineers on staff waiting for something to do, there is no doubt that they do have some working on ideas for their Strawberry Patch. However, there’s no telling if or when the current concepts will be executed. So, current rumors of the third gate have no relation to the relative success or failure of DCA." Sorry but Disney is in no obligation to build a third gate, if they wanted they could easily fill that land with DVC hotels. So yes, the idea that the third gate is back on the radar is connected to the positive upswing in resort tourism due to Disneyland and DCA's continued upswing in attendance. Management is very aware of the potential for a third gate. The resort with two gates at the moment saw some very strong guest numbers in several occasions that caused both gates to close for a few hours. This is oone of the reasons why management is not to hesitant in spending more capitol on DCA. It does not matter whether peple stay in one park or the other. What matters is that people are not force to turn around and go home becaus ethe resort is too crowded. Expand DCA, expand DTD and in the future add a third gate and people have several options to stick around and spend money. One of the reasons i have a good laugh is because i sonstantly see people bringin up the 2fer ticket. It is automatically used as proof of DCA failing. The truth is that it does not matter to TDA or Burbank. Have people show up twice to the resort and what is spent in food, merchandise and parking makes up for the reduction in ticket price. It is a good marketing tool which convinces people that they are getting a deal. They think they are saving but in actuallity they are not because most of the time they end up spending more than coming during a regular ticketed priced day. Its just like the buy two gallons of milk and save a dollar. Many fall for that but maybe all you needed was one gallon. So instead of spending $3 to $4 you spend close to $6. Any one that is in marketing knows that people are easily attracted to what they think is a saving. How many people fall for the .99 scam. they see something that is a certain dollar amount plus .99 cents and automatically look at the low side of the actual price instead of the high side of the price. For many $3.99 is still in the $3 dollar range but really what is .01. Notice how Disney always rounds off there merchandise prices? Always low enough to make it seem like its cheaper than it actually might be.
Originally Posted By bean "Bean I'm sure that the reason they are closing DCA at 6pm is so that by 10pm when DL closes they will have cleared the esplanade of the massive hordes they tossed out of DCA. Sounds right to me." DCA never closes four hours before Disneyland unless it is having a special event. The norm is two hours to allow people to shop at DTD and take a tram. Also the "schedule" closing time is not the actual time that people are forced out of the park. Attractions normally close at the time scheduled unless there were guests already in line before that time then they are allowed to ride. The parks usually allows one hour for shopping before all guests are escorted towards the front gates.
Originally Posted By bean "What I did notice was that only DAK has a 6 pm close time at that has more to do with the animals sleeping. Aug. 29th The studios closes at 6 pm. My guess is not for a special ticket event but a sale of the park for the evening like a GM private party. I know they rent 1 park per night for four nights for their employees. Bean I've worked at Kings Dominion, Universal Studios Florida, and MGM. I fully understand the concept of "the off season". But thanks for the explaination. I still stand by the assertion that the 6pm close time is prompted by soft evening numbers not traffic control issues. I do believe that that is what the World of Color is spacifically designed to address." yes and have you also taken into account the amount of hotel rooms available in the Anaheim area compared to the amount of hotel rooms available in the WDW property alone. WDW parks will always stay open a few hours later because of its size. It has many many more thousands of people that it needs to serve. Schedules in WDW are also done so that each park closes at different hours because eventhough WDW has a large infrustructure, there are still problems with thousands of cars on property. You have 4 theme parks, two wtaer parks and over 200 acre shopping district. Each park normally is scheduled to close at different intervals. DAK, closes early not just because of its animals but because several of its attractions are on a certain limited schedule showtimes. Then its MGM for the same reason, but MGM has the benefit of Fantasmic. Epcot's future world closes one hour after DAK since everyone normally heads towards world pavilion for late dining and ilumintion.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer This summer, there was a 3 hour difference between DL and DCA closing (9 PM compared to Midnight), and that only 2 stores remained open at DCA after 9 PM Greetings and Engine Ears Toys (closing at 10 PM, if any guests are remaining, sometimes they can close early), The Baker's Field Bakery and Bur-r-r Bank Ice Cream stores stays open 30 minutes after park closing (9:30 PM). And also in opening either 2 hours, or if you count EE, 3 hours on that side. But if we compare the basic summer hours, Disneyland was open from 8 to Midnight, or 16 hours, while DCA was open from 10 to 9, or 11 hours, that is very close to 2/3'rds of the Disneyland hours of operation. A major difference.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Regardless of the difference in hours, I don't think that is proof that DCA is failing.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer But it does show it is clearly underperforming as compared to Disneyland.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer And based on what the Disney senior staff said in 2001, and how Disneyland would be needed to handle DCA's overflow, well, to me, that makes the park a failure....
