Originally Posted By WorldDisney Bean and 2001DLFAN, Do you guys both work for the parks or something? Both of you provide (at least I THINK) credible info from the inside. Keep doing it though, its fun to read ;D. Personnally when I say DCA is a failure, it is mostly an artisic one, but if what people say is true and all that money will fix a lot of the cosmetic look of the place, that's a HUGE plus with me . Although DCA still underperforms, compared to crappy HKDL, it looks like its doing fine compared to when I was there 2 weeks ago and the completely D-E-A-D park of HKDL when I was there last year. Compared to that pathetic park, DCA is sitting pretty ;D.
Originally Posted By gadzuux For me - cosmetic changes to theming are too much of a bandaid approach, and don't answer my biggest gripe - a lack of compelling attractions. While I recognize that aesthetics are important, again these cosmetic changes don't address my biggest issues - the visual intrusions into the park of the ACC and surrounding areas. And the power lines - they still bug me. I understand that these changes are also the cheapest, quickest, and easiest to do and that's probably why they're front-loaded onto the schedule. So fine - let them theme away. Just don't expect that it will have any significant impact.
Originally Posted By dshyates yeah, so far in all the talk of whats coming, I haven't heard of any knock your socks off rides.
Originally Posted By 2001DLFan <<WorldDisney: Personnally when I say DCA is a failure, it is mostly an artisic one, but if what people say is true and all that money will fix a lot of the cosmetic look of the place, that's a HUGE plus with me . Although DCA still underperforms, compared to crappy HKDL, it looks like its doing fine compared to when I was there 2 weeks ago and the completely D-E-A-D park of HKDL when I was there last year. Compared to that pathetic park, DCA is sitting pretty ;D.>> Well in relation to all of Disney’s parks, when DCA opened, it was considered by many to be the worst one. At the same time, the opening of Tokyo DisneySea showed that Disney could still produce top quality as that park took over the “best†position from Disneyland Paris. Then with the opening of Disney Studio Paris, that park relieved DCA of the “worst†title. As for Hong Kong Disneyland, while that park is weak in it’s content and is having problems with cultural issues, it is stronger than DCA and DSP overall. Unfortunately it’s weakness isn’t as easy to determine. When an ageing local park, Ocean Park, is able to improve itself to the point of approaching HKDL’s attendance while HKDL’s attendance has actually dropped over it’s previous year, it’s obvious that there are issues that need to be dealt with. Iger has made great strides in improving Disney since his appointment. But there are still quite a few internal issues, many of them remnants from Eisner’s last few years (and many at WDI that remain since Fitzgerald’s replacement) that need to be addressed.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney oh yeah I agree with you, DCA pretty much was hailed as the worst park by many although others thought that MGM was owed that title. But I think what bothered most people about DCA and unlike MGM when it opened was the *anticipation* of a second park FINALLY opening in Anaheim and allll the possibilities people had in their minds what it would be---man that turned out to be huge let down lol. But the economics (and the current regieme at the time) dictated the park we ended up getting. Fine, but can it still be GOOD??? Anyway, it is sad when DCA opened in 2001, although I didn't think it was horrible or anything, I didn't think Disney could EVER make a worse park than this....boy was I wrong. Like I said, I have ZERO qualms to visit the park and love to go to visit the things I like when I am there (of course it doesn't hurt its included in the multi-park fare ). I even said my visit of it in 2005 AND riding one of my favorite rides at Disney, TOT, is what convinced me to buy my first AP, oddly because of DCA . If there was no TOT, I don't know I would've bothered though but the whole 50th thing really helped want to come back over and over again when I was in the states for a few months. As far as WDSP and HKDL, those parks are just bad, but for different reasons. WDSP is the ONLY park thus far I have not made a consious effort to even visit. Every single park that opened starting with Animal Kingdom, I made an effort to try and go the first year of opening. DCA, TDS and HKDL, I went anywhere from the first week of opening to the first few months, but 5 years ON and I haven't bothered with WDS, it sucks THAT much . HKDL, granted, is genrally nice and pretty, but unlike DCA that at least has loyal DL fans and don't mind making a few hours distractrations to see it, HKDL doesn't have any real strong fanbase obviously and since the ENTIRE resort is a 3-5 hour experience at the moment, that is what is frankly killing it. Ocean Park is not a great park by any sense of the word, but hell, at least you can fill up your day there and it cost nearly HALF of what HKDL does, that's a problem . The average Chinese don't care about the 'magic' or understand it like the Americans, Japanese or Europeans do yet and frankly that park has given them little of its about, so at the moment its a value thing. That's why its losing people in its second year while OP is gaining more after decades of operation. DCA at least has the advantage of being next door to a full day park. So does WDSP. HKDL not in the slightest and another dumb headed move by the former guys.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<For me - cosmetic changes to theming are too much of a bandaid approach, and don't answer my biggest gripe - a lack of compelling attractions. While I recognize that aesthetics are important, again these cosmetic changes don't address my biggest issues - the visual intrusions into the park of the ACC and surrounding areas. And the power lines - they still bug me.>> Don't get me wrong Gadzuux, the park REALLY needs more compelling attractions than just Soarin and TOT pronto ;0. It needs ALOT of things. Hopefully the billion dollar fix will address most of them in time. But for me personnally, the cosmetic changes will definitely add a lot to my experiences and can greatly change my view of the park alone. I'm one of those Disney people who just love to walk and walk and WALK all day in the park if its pretty enough. When I was in TDS last week, that's what I just love about it, there is just so much to take in, you don't have to see a single show or ride and feel like you alreadgy got your money's worth (but I DO ride...alot lol. Just making the point if I don't, no biggie and I usually just sit in Mediterranean Harbour for HOURS sometimes and read a book like I did last week just admiring the harbor and have no problems with that. It kind of feels like I'm back in Italy, but since its all Italian based, I guess its suppose to lol. And its CLEANER ) That's what I'm talking bout here. That park draws me IN over and over again....DCA doesn't, period. I just ride what I want to ride and then get the hell out of there. What I like there is fine, but I guess I treat like any other them park that is not Disney or Universal and for a Disney park, THAT is a problem. I don't care to sit around or walk like I do at TDS, Epot, DAK and all the MK parks---sadly minus HKDL (ironically, you DO a lot of walking in that tiny park when you rode pretty much everything after 2 hours ). So that's what I mean, it would be nice to appreciate the asthetics of the park a little more obviously and NOT just to get on the next big ride (although that's important too ). I remember reading somewhere (probably here or MiceAge) that the changes are suppose to be so grand, they could possibly rival TDS. We will have to see lol, but even if it's half of what TDS is now, its still 10 times better of what is there now . But they are still keeping PP, so I'm not sure how all nice they can make it.....but I have hope this sucky park will at least LOOK less sucky in a few years .
Originally Posted By jonvn "Do you REALLY consider the efforts to remove Eisner a selfish act?" Yes, because it came only after Roy Disney was removed from the board. It was pretty transparent. Everything was just peachy keen until then.
Originally Posted By jonvn Bean: "I am tired of this argument " The problem is you're actually trying to discuss the thing, but you are doing it with people who can't say anything except DCA SUCKS. It's like the same thing over and over. I appreciate your comments, though. I'm sure a few others do as well. But you're just not going to get through to people who somehow are in a position to know everything, yet repeatedly demonstrate a complete lack of business understanding.
Originally Posted By jonvn "My stocks had taken a huge hit because of Eisner." The problem with this story is that it's kind of false. Here's a page with a chart of Disney stock growth: <a href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=DIS&t=my" target="_blank">http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc? s=DIS&t=my</a> It has been a pretty constant rise until it took a hit in 2001, like everything else. It is still not back up to pre-2001 levels. "I have no doubt that he would have proceeded even if he hadn’t had a financial reason as his name was also involved." I really enjoy how some people seem to think they can read minds. Some people go on about what "senior staff" had to say when they have absolutely no way of knowing that, and now we have you telling us what Roy Disney would have done. The rest of us just have to go by what actually happened. “Where do you think Disney (the company) would be right now if Roy and Stanley hadn’t been successful in their efforts?†Eisner would have eventually left anyway. Because of all the noise, he probably left a year early. "Both of you provide (at least I THINK) credible info from the inside." Bean does. I don't see it coming from anyone else.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<As for Hong Kong Disneyland, while that park is weak in it’s content and is having problems with cultural issues, it is stronger than DCA and DSP overall. Unfortunately it’s weakness isn’t as easy to determine. When an ageing local park, Ocean Park, is able to improve itself to the point of approaching HKDL’s attendance while HKDL’s attendance has actually dropped over it’s previous year, it’s obvious that there are issues that need to be dealt with.>> IMO it's not rocket science as to why HKDL is struggling. People think there isn't enough to do, and is a poor value for the money.
Originally Posted By jonvn I don't recall when HKDL opened. But if it is in its second year, that is why attendance has dropped. I hope it will actually fail. I was never happy with Disney putting a park in China. I think our business dealings with them are unethical, and they are stealing jobs from us while producing bad products that are unsafe.
Originally Posted By dshyates "they are stealing jobs from us while producing bad products that are unsafe." We are giving them our jobs, and we are buying inferior products from them. It's all in OUR leadership. Most people will do what they can get away with.
Originally Posted By jonvn I'm not giving them my job. And I have almost no choice in buying things from China. I want corporations to feel the sting of doing business with this country, and hope every last business venture with China fails miserably. It would be a great thing for our country if this park fails, mattel goes broke due to lawsuits, and other companies finally start to wise up about this and stop destroying this country. People need to stop buying chinese products, but it is almost impossible at this point to avoid it.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I don't recall when HKDL opened. But if it is in its second year, that is why attendance has dropped.>> Actually, that's not entirely true. We have a resident HKDL board member who has his own little HKDL website and according to his sources, Disney is VERY worried how much of a drop that park has experienced while acknowledging parks do have drops in the second year, but HKDL's drop IS very steep. There is a running thread talking about it put out by Super Dry, but supposedly 2nd years attendance will hover somewhere around 4 million!!!! First year attendance was a little over 5 million. IF that number holds up, that is alarming, worse than alarming when you take into account ALL the discounting, AP offers and new package deals the park has put into place to entice people to come, but still lose over a million customers. Like I said, DCA certainly SUCKS and having its problems, but apparently nothing close to HKDL....then again HKDL doesn't have a DL next door to keep people there (its SUPPOSE to be doing that all on its own lol. Now they are building half day parks with no full day parks along side it....who keep making these idiotic decisions????) At the rate HKDL is going, the board might need to approve 2 Billion in 6 years to bail it out ;D.
Originally Posted By dshyates I was wondering what on earth they were going to do with 1.2 billion within the gates of DCA. Mr. Lutz gives a 5 page hint and leaves no question where they intend to take this park. To the moon Alice. Jonvn is right in that appearently this meager test park proved what TDA needed to know. They are pretty much leveling it from the Hyperion to Soarin'. Picking back up at the west side of the SF Dome thing and going to the coaster. Big changes also are coming to the remaining Pier. DCA will be unrecognizable for the most part. The area around Grizzly Peak is all that will remain untouched. DCA as we know it, "Bye Bye, you are the weakest link".
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Yeah, just read the other article and honestly if true, DCA won't look like anything we see today minus GRR. That seems bizarre to me IF true. Has a Disney theme park been THIS renovated in such a short life span that the park looks like an entirely different one? Wow, the new guys must REALLY hate the current park if they plan to basically level every land and start new lol. And Darkbeer, please, please, PLEASE try to be there the day they level MM and get photos!!!!! That will be a day for us all when that monstrity is finally in the trash heap .
Originally Posted By Darkbeer I am looking forward to the day the bulldozers arrive. They can't hide them from my camera, there are too many options (Sun Wheel and Screamin') to prevent it. It will be a fun day, followed by lots of future days of photos of the removal of MM, Golden Dreams and the rest of the area. I can't wait to see the new stuff, come on Preview center... like the lady on the Mervin's commercials "OPEN, OPEN, OPEN"
Originally Posted By jonvn I just read this thing. I was intrigued by whatever it was I was supposed to be right about. I still don't know. Oh well! But I have to say, this is the most dreadfully shocking paragraph in the entire article: But about five years ago a few TDA departments really started to go their own way and the clearly defined Business Casual standards began to be ignored. Women in TDA began wearing denim fabric, flimsy sleeveless blouses and open sandals, while men began to wear casual polo shirts and khaki pants that obviously had never met an iron. Neckties disappeared almost completely inside TDA. Some of the more fashionable TDA departments like Marketing and Entertainment even have folks with punky hairdo's and wild jewelry that would never be seen on a manager in the park. An hourly hostess would likely get sent home from her shift at Star Tours for having two-tone hair, but the same wild hairdo could be the hit of the Tuesday morning meeting in TDA. I can't begin to tell you all how horrified I am at the thought of people wearing the wrong color eye shade. It sickens me. I personally am very glad that the managers at the theme park will be properly attired now. I can sleep at night now knowing that this vital issue is being addressed.
