Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << And in quiet conversation, when you're not on the lot, you get a very clear picture that DCA, while never in danger of bankruptcy, was an abject disappointment and failure, and underachiever, relative to internal projections and promises from those who put it together. >> I guess the question needs to be asked then -- did DL meet its internal projections for 2001 when attendance was down 11%? How about WDW after 9/11? Does everything that doesn't meet projections get labeled a "failure" by the accountants? ESPN Mobile is a "failure." They shut it down. By accounting standards, Fantasia was a failure. And why would anyone rely on accountants to say whether or not DCA was a success or failure -- weren't these the same sorts of people who supposedly slashed the budgets for the place to begin with?
Originally Posted By dshyates Would you consider a "success" as the butt of national jokes, the basis of a 7 year heated online debate, and the laughing stock of the theme park industry. The only real success I have seen fron DCA is to further tarnish Disney's already faultering reputation for steller world class vacation destinations.
Originally Posted By dshyates to put it another way, it did prompt me to stay 2 days extra when we went, and inspired us to have no intrest what-so-ever in returning.
Originally Posted By Sweeper If DCA was a Six Flags park in Valencia then it would be amazing. BUT it is a Disney park and it did not live up to the name Disney...so now comes the 1 billion dollar fix. This isn't that complicated. Thank goodness those in charge are willing to admit there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<Would you consider a "success" as the butt of national jokes, the basis of a 7 year heated online debate, and the laughing stock of the theme park industry>> Other than the online debate, I'm not aware of any national jokes about DCA. Heck, I bet the average Joe doesn't even know the park exists. I doubt too that DCA is the laughing stock of the industry. Considering it's still one of the most popular theme parks in America, I don't see how many others in the industry can make fun of it... scant few are setting the world on fire with their offerings.
Originally Posted By BlueOhanaTerror >>>ESPN Mobile is a "failure." They shut it down.<<< It's not a physical "place" - it's a lot easier for the public to forget a web/communications hub/destination, than a sprawling investment with physical, tangible assets. As for DCA being a joke, even Drew Carey, a Disney employee, at its OPENING, ridiculed the wisdom of building the park in the first place. The Simpsons did their number on it. As did Jay Leno, more than once. More than a few pretty well-known comedians have had their turn.
Originally Posted By bean "A agree. If they have a 5-10 year plan to upgrade DCA I really doubt that the third them park is even being thought about." what does this have to do with a third gate. Just because one park is being worked on does not mean that you stall the expansion of a resort when it is booming. Disney has an excess amount of cash flow at the moment. If it just lets it sit there Wallstreet will take notice. The money needs to be invested and at the moment Anaheim is the resort that is booming and is no longer considered just a local resort but a major international asset for the company. DCA does not need to be fully realized for a third gate to open. Besides look at what i mentioned, the third gate is in early blue sky. A theme parkis not designed in just a few hsort months.they are designed disected and soemtimes designed again.
Originally Posted By bean "Look at California Adventure, the signature of Pressler's reign as theme-park king. The ailing park surely suffers from a lack of amusements - an obvious result of its relatively low-budget construction, if you can say that about a $1.4 billion park. Pressler's bet that a quirky mix of rides, eateries and retailing would make the new park a draw was a flop. For Disney, California Adventure is not the sole Disney ailment." actually Darkbeer you can not say that about the park because it was nothing close to 1.4 billion. DCA was closer to the 600million mark. the 1.4 billion included other developments for the resort expansion.
Originally Posted By TP2000 So they spent 600 Million to build DCA in the late 1990's, and they are about to spend over 1 Billion to fix it in the late 2000's. From the Inflation Calculator: What cost 600 Million in 1999, would cost 720 Million in 2006. What cost 1.4 Billion in 1999, would cost 1.7 Billion in 2006. What cost 1.1 Billion in 1999, would cost 830 Million in 2006. So you could look at that a few ways. A fun thing is to figure that the dollar amount of the fixes they are currently spending would have added 830 Million to the original budget, for a total of 1.4 Billion dollars to build DCA in the late 1990's. Or, it's also interesting to realize that they are spending over 300 Million dollars more on fixes and expansion than they spent to build the place to begin with. And that expansion doesn't include Tower of Terror, Bugs Land, Midway Mania and all the entertainment and smaller changes made in the last five years like Playhouse Disney, Monsters Inc., Millionaire, Electrical Parade, Block Party, etc. This 1.1 Billion Dollars for DCA is HUGE! And it doesn't include Midway Mania, Pixar Pals Parade and World of Color all in final planning and construction. Even spread over five to seven years, 1.1 Billion for DCA is absolutely HUGE!
Originally Posted By bean "Its funny to me, people always think its ridiculous for people like Darkbeer to cite the 'F' word (I'm going to keep using that ;D), but its JUST as ridiculous to claim DCA had problems because of 9/11, the weather, economy and, say it with me people, the 'marketing' and etc when A. the place was having problems 7 months PRIOR to September 11th and B. the tourist downturn situation never hurt DL the same way it hurt DCA. Most of these are/were just excuses for a public that just never truly had a big reason to the park. The fact that the place is getting so much money tells people its what INSIDE that they feel needs to be improved to get people interested and they aren't using that billion just for a better marketing campaign." I agree DCA had some problems before 9/11. but Yes 9/11 did have an impact to both parks, the diference was that disneyland's high local guests maintained its attendance tot he levels it did. Disneyland had much more offerings that made the ticket price seem like a much better deal. Some things that people also need to take into account is that TDA, made a huge mistake with DCA's opening campaign. They oversold preview tickets and spcieal promotional days before the parks debut. They oversold the smaller park to the media. They chose some of the worst time to open the park. It was during a winter season way before any significant holiday. They held back on any advertsising for the park because they were afraid that by advertising the park to early, that it would caused international tourist to postpone trips to the resort until the second gate opened. They were too afraid to cut into Disneylands Christmas season. No advertsising was doen for the park in any international or domestic market until two months before park opening. This gave very little time for international tourism to materialize. If you were to look at the guest flow for DCA, international tourist did not materialize until it was closer to the summer season. Meanwhile locals stayed away from the park because of the image DCa had received before opening due to preview days. If DCA had opened closer to the easter season attendance would have been higher. By the time some of the negativity had been spread the park would have already had a bigger attendance number. by then the summer season would had kicked in with international tourist. The park has not had the same negative impact with international tourism as local criticism. that is why DCA has been the only park to see significant increase in attendance since opening even in the second year which normally sees any theme park receive a decrease. some consistently bring up the free tickets disney gives out or the 2 for 1 promotion. Those promotions are misunderstood and marketing is to blame. The reality is that neither park is given for free. Disney has always given out free tickets to all of its parks. Disney normally gets a good return on those tickets with the moeny spent inside the parks by those guests. It is also a cheap way of marketing. The 2 for 1 ticket is basically the same promotion that Anaheim used to offer before DCA opened. The suthern California Salute. With that promotion guests were able to pay 1/2 price for a one day ticket. that did not mean that Disneyland was valued less. It just meant that it kept the park busy during the slow international guest season. With the 2 for 1 the parks are given equal value 1/2 of the ticket for each (note that non of this matters since it all goes to the same resort. There are several advantages to this. 1) people buy the 2 for 1 ticket with the idea that it is a significant value. 2) Some people might end up not coming back, therefore these people just ended up paying full price for one park 3) If these people come back they will end up paying for a second parking day. 4) These same people will now be bac for another day at the resort where they would most likely spend money on merchandise and food and drinks. Disney does not loose and neither park is free no matter what some people want to believe. Sometimes people need to read between the lines of a very clever marketing campaign. Advertising it as a 2 parks for one price would most likely convnce people more to buy it than advertising it as get two parks for half price each.
Originally Posted By bean The truth is that DCA is not a failure but it also is not a success in the level they expected. To say DCA is a failure, the park would be loosing money and driving the resort down. Its the complete opposite. DCA is holding well financially (maybe not as well as they wanted) but still not a failure or close to one. The problem with DCA is that it could be much more for the resort and that is the reason for the huge amount of money that will be applied to it. People could quote every newspaper and article they want but it won't change the fact that DCA did accomplish one thing. It created the foundation for a resort that has turned cuaght the attention of the world. People are staying longer and hotels occupancy has risen in the whole Anaheim resort area
Originally Posted By jonvn Post 131 is probably right. Extreme claims about failure this or that are really pointless, and people making claims like that look like they are uninformed with an axe to grind. It's really just dumb talk and it is quite tiresome.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<To say DCA is a failure, the park would be loosing money and driving the resort down. Its the complete opposite. DCA is holding well financially (maybe not as well as they wanted) but still not a failure or close to one.>> That may be true, but I just can't believe the powers that be are satisfied DL is basically a complete crutch to DCA. I mean, they can't even sell more than a few hundred full priced tickets every month. The place is completely discounted and while I'm sure its in the black, its only because they have tried every trick in the book to convince people to enter. Nothing wrong with that IF that makes them happy, but i just can't believe they are, but I don't know lol. I mean if the only way Steve Jobs could've gotten people to buy Ipods was 60% discounts with every mac computer they bought, then I just don't think that is something the company could be all that happy about. Yeah, they are selling them, but at what cost?? This is why I think DCA is just a problematic mess. The thing can't seem to stand on its own AT ALL!! Yes, I know complentary to DL and all that, but I don't think they built this park thinking they only way the majority people would give it a chance is only through multi hopper deals and most see it more as a holdover when DL is busy more than a full day option, which DCA was suppose to be (why?? You have to ask the idiots that built the 3 hour park lol). Anyway, I can't believe I STILL like talking about this. Always fun . Thanks for the info as always guys!!
Originally Posted By danyoung >The truth is that DCA is not a failure but it also is not a success in the level they expected.< Simple, elegant, and most likely accurate. And no amount of negative Darkbeer posts will make it otherwise. Seriously, db dude, I've never seen anyone spend so much time trying to convince the world that DCA was failure. You've been doing it ever since it opened. Give it a rest, huh?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Hi Bean, I actually didn't look at the the past posts since I left the thread, but just went back (ALWAYS fun ) and I saw this and wanted to comment! Okay, here goes: <<but Yes 9/11 did have an impact to both parks, the diference was that disneyland's high local guests maintained its attendance tot he levels it did. Disneyland had much more offerings that made the ticket price seem like a much better deal.>> Yeah, no brainer there lol. <<Some things that people also need to take into account is that TDA, made a huge mistake with DCA's opening campaign. <<They oversold preview tickets and spcieal promotional days before the parks debut.>> I'm not sure what you are getting at by this? <<They oversold the smaller park to the media.>> Hey, the folks at Hong Kong seem to have gotten the same deal ;D. <<They chose some of the worst time to open the park. It was during a winter season way before any significant holiday.>> Well, this makes sense though and completely understandable. But again, the arrogant morons thought the park would be COMPLETELY sold out all of Febuary regardless of the time of year. They had a lot of pride back then didn't they? <<They held back on any advertsising for the park because they were afraid that by advertising the park to early, that it would caused international tourist to postpone trips to the resort until the second gate opened. They were too afraid to cut into Disneylands Christmas season.>> That again makes sense, but AS one of them international tourist, we don't get much vacation time in Asia like in Europe, so most would've still went in December regardless or have to wait another year for most. But for Europe, that could be a different story with all their freaking vacation time. <<No advertsising was doen for the park in any international or domestic market until two months before park opening. This gave very little time for international tourism to materialize. If you were to look at the guest flow for DCA, international tourist did not materialize until it was closer to the summer season.>> Again, probably due to the fact all the local was just going to EAT IT UP at the beginning and there wouldn't be any room for all us international folks who would be dissappointed we couldn't have our peak at this great park. Yeah, that was a smart move. <<Meanwhile locals stayed away from the park because of the image DCa had received before opening due to preview days. If DCA had opened closer to the easter season attendance would have been higher. By the time some of the negativity had been spread the park would have already had a bigger attendance number. by then the summer season would had kicked in with international tourist.>> I don't know if I agree with this completely. I think more locals would've tried it out from the beginning if Disney would've included something like a multi day pass, SMALLER admission price and etc. Like I said, DCA is NOT the worst park on the planet and sadly, not even the worse Disney park anymore, but it comes down to value. People aren't willing to pay full price for something that is percieved at half value. THAT'S the biggest knock against this park. Its isn't the pathetic Paradise Pier, the dozen movies, etc. Everyone has NO problems with that when the 2-for-1 discount rolls around lol. But, no one is going to give a park a chance when they hear not only is the quality isn't up to snuff, but there is barely anything there to hold your time, but btw, they still expect you to spend just as much there as you do at DL. They didn't then in 2001 and they still aren't today. That's all it is, simple. <<The park has not had the same negative impact with international tourism as local criticism. that is why DCA has been the only park to see significant increase in attendance since opening even in the second year which normally sees any theme park receive a decrease.>> Yeah, I think that's true. Again, when you don't LIVE in California and you take it for its own terms, its not that bad. But I still don't understand why they couldn't make a park and theme that is exciting for BOTH??? Until DCA came along, I never realized DL was considered a 'local' park, especially since it attracts people all around the world. I been to all of them and they seem to do a good job of spreading the love just fine. But for some reason, they seem to go out of their way to attract mainly the out-of-town crowd when locals make up a huge amount of their attendance. Makes NO sense??? Just BUILD A FUN, INNOVATIVE PARK!!!!! Something that grabs the locals as well as the others. Why was that so hard? Well, they certainly paid for THAT decision lol.....morons! <<Disney has always given out free tickets to all of its parks. Disney normally gets a good return on those tickets with the moeny spent inside the parks by those guests. It is also a cheap way of marketing. The 2 for 1 ticket is basically the same promotion that Anaheim used to offer before DCA opened. The suthern California Salute. With that promotion guests were able to pay 1/2 price for a one day ticket. that did not mean that Disneyland was valued less. It just meant that it kept the park busy during the slow international guest season.>> Yeah, I remeber those $20 tickets...good times . It was the ONLY time we went to DL outside of summer just to do those promotions. We were quite poor, so it was really the only way to swing a trip more than twice a year. <<With the 2 for 1 the parks are given equal value 1/2 of the ticket for each (note that non of this matters since it all goes to the same resort. There are several advantages to this. 1) people buy the 2 for 1 ticket with the idea that it is a significant value. 2) Some people might end up not coming back, therefore these people just ended up paying full price for one park 3) If these people come back they will end up paying for a second parking day. 4) These same people will now be bac for another day at the resort where they would most likely spend money on merchandise and food and drinks. Disney does not loose and neither park is free no matter what some people want to believe. Sometimes people need to read between the lines of a very clever marketing campaign.>> Trust, I don't care if Disney 'lose' lol. They are getting enough of our money regardless . And yeah, they were doing this at Magic Mountain a FULL decade before DL got desperate enough to do this. It was basically a 2 days for one price ticket which were redeemable for $1. They were completely FREE the first year of the promotion, was a $1 the next year for a few years on. GREAT promotion and got all us high schoolers back usually the following weekend . Its the same idea Disney is following, except now you have two parks to do it in . I still think though those things ONLY exist because DCA is pretty damn slow most of that time and while I agree it IS a good thing (hell, 2 parks for 1 price, yeah very good!!), if DCA was doing muuuch better, then its no way in hell these passes would've EVER existed. Also the first year, you could've used that pass to CHOOSE what park to enter (and as you said, its all going back to the resort anyway, so what does it matter??) but guess what, people were mainly using them to enter DL twice, so they specially had to change it to make SURE people use it to visit DCA on the 2nd trip. Once again, they are doing everything possible to get people in there. Hey more power to them, but this promotion is like every promotion and discount came to play when DCA opened, to get people to SEE the park that no one wants to spend a full price ticket to see!! BUT, if it makes them want to come back and PAY for the full price ticket next round, then its working, but if they are anything like my family and just wait for these passes to come around just so they have an excuse to go to DCA when they normally wouldn't bother...I hope those bulldozers are in place SOON .
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "TDA, made a huge mistake with DCA's opening campaign." Boy, did they ever.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "I mean, they can't even sell more than a few hundred full priced tickets every month." WD, where in the world do you get this information from??
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf I agree with Bean, DCA is neither a great succes nor a failure. It has prompted guests to lengthen their visits to Disneyland, the DL resorts are fuller (as are the surrounding hotels) and offers some attractions that are very popular. So in some ways it's even a moderate success. However, there is clearly room for improvement, which could further enhance the DL Resort experience (and get people to say longer and spend more money) -- hence the $1 Billion investment.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA Ok -- new rule. All posts must be under 7000 words. Stop it! I've wasted enough time reading these exhaustive posts!
