Originally Posted By utahjosh pecos, that sounds rational. To me, that's one of the most incredible things about God. That he created EVERYTHING in the vast universe, but still knows you, your heart, and loves you.
Originally Posted By pecos bill Josh, I was going to ask that if your faith is so strong, why do you even bother interacting with those with such opposing views? But then, the same could be said for non-believers. Perhaps none of us are truly certain in our convictions, or we would have no cause to defend them. I just cant comprehend how anyone can be absolutely certain of something that is so incredibly controversial.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Interacting is one thing, trying to convince is another. I love people, I love my faith, and I like Laughingplace.com I'm absolutely certain, but it's not something I can explain with words over a discussion board. It's about faith, sprit, feelings, and things beyond words.
Originally Posted By pecos bill My point about God was that it may not even be aware of our existence, just one of the infinite number of possibilities.
Originally Posted By johnno52 What if someone shows you a book that explains not only the very early existence of man but also how he was created (Adam & Eve) What if everything in this books co-relates with everyones thinking past and present. What if this book predated all such religious books (bible as such). Would Christians believe this book as they have the Bible? I have mentioned this book in another thread. Actually its not one book but hundreds and possibly thousands of Sumerian clay tablets. History shows that civilization began in Mesopotamia where the Sumerians lived. The archaeologist Zecheria Sitchin learned how to read these tablets and he comes up with a very different understanding of the beginning of man and possibly the missing link. His books are very good reading and non-religious, atheists and agnostics could find a new look into the origins of man. To give you what to expect if you wish to look into this further, he read that "God" was an Alien and came to Earth looking for Gold (coincidence that we value it the most). They needed this gold to protect their planet and needed lots of it. They found that it was too labor intensive for them and wanted the humans to do this work. However the humans at that time did not have the mental capacity to understand orders. So "God" created Adam. The rest is in the bible well sort of. He also explains the Deluge, Sodom and Gomorrah, the pyramids and their uses, plus a whole lot more. Am I delusional? no more than others who read and believe.
Originally Posted By utahjosh The Sumerians, the Jews, the Egyptians, the Chinese, and every other of the many cultures with their religions around the world have a different perspective on life. They each have their own perspective on the origin of man, the purpose of life, on historical occurances like the great flood, creation, etc. There is one truth out there, but everyone claims to have it. But it does exist. It's out there somewhere, because what really happened happened. I don't think any culture has a full history of this planet, and that most have a skewed version of the actual truth, just due to time.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn My evidence of God is the existence of eyes. An eyeball that can, in an organized fashion, gather light, divide it into colors, focus something called "an image", do this twice with a second eye, transform those "images" into some electronic format that can be sent down a nerve route, send those electronic formats from two eyes simultaneously to the brain, formulate those signals into "the perception of an image", and do this in color, in 3-D and in consistent "motion" combining infinesmal images Moreover, those two eyes can change focus, adjust to amounts of light, and reaim themselves to selected targets using muscles. I simply cannot contemplate the existence of the eyes is something that has "just happened". I do not believe eyes can be developed randomly over eons and eons of millenia. Eyes must be designed.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I hope DlandJB will forgive me for quoting her, but I couldn’t put it better: “As the great prophet Bob Dylan has observed ‘You gotta serve somebody.’ †>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, i just found this thread -- glad to be of service and good post, Schmitty.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I simply cannot contemplate the existence of the eyes is something that has "just happened". I do not believe eyes can be developed randomly over eons and eons of millenia. Eyes must be designed.>>>>> I like that. There are a great number of things that point to God for me. Trees, fruit, flowers....the variety of life and of indiviudals. In that infinite variety I see the infinite power of God. In music -- so much in music, which no other species seem to have simply for enjoyment and enhancement of life. It says to me that God enjoys our creativity and we all sort of manifest different abilities and areas where we excell -- even two kids from the same family with the same upbringing can be as different as night and day. Free will/free choice. That is something we all have access to. If God didn't want to give us the choice to love and serve him he could have skipped that part. You don't have to believe. But, in my experience, that belief opens up the world in new and amazing ways. Not all of them are wonderful - the more we have to give, the more we are challenged to do so. But the blessings are amazing. Organized religion - I've said this before - is tricky because it is not made by God, who is perfect and never changing - it is made by man, who is easily messed with and frail...prone to selfishness. Unfotunately, those selfish and prideful behaviors are really lousy public relations for a perfect and loving God. The consistancy of God is proof to me too. If I live my life choosing to go after what makes me happy, I'm going to be always unsatisfied, because what makes me happy today isn't going to make me happy tomorrow. What I want is going to change. But if I have the consistancy of God as my compass, I find a greater joy.
Originally Posted By johnno52 >I simply cannot contemplate the existence of the eyes is something that has "just happened". I do not believe eyes can be developed randomly over eons and eons of millenia. Eyes must be designed.< Actually there was a very comprehensive documentary on PBS on this very subject just a few months ago.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>My evidence of God is the existence of eyes.<< Ironically, eyes are a good sign that there was no designer. Of course, no one is denying the remarkable things the eye can do. But the human body, and many other animals, are capable of remarkable things. Personally, I find the wonder of evolution and the world far more inspiring than the notion of a supernatural being that created everything. The human eye sees upside down and backwards. Newborns actually see upside down when they're first born until their mind learns to flip the image. They eye is a perfect example of the wonder of evolution and how our body/mind connection adjusts to one another as our environment changes.
Originally Posted By johnno52 That saying, many creatures living underground and in the deep seas don't have eyes! Was this by design or is it based on their environmental needs?
Originally Posted By pecos bill So, what I am getting here is that a lot of people do believe in God, but have a disdain for formal religion. Am I correct in assuming that these folks have individual interpretations of what represents God? Any thoughts on eternal damnation, disease, famine, genocide and other creations of the omnipotent, all knowing, all loving creator?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***There is one truth out there, but everyone claims to have it.*** Ain't that the truth. Actually if you want to look at things from a logical standpoint where everything is based on what might be plausible or even possible, Johnno's religious views here are probably the most rational of all!
Originally Posted By Mr X ***My evidence of God is the existence of eyes.*** While it's very cool that you appreciate the coolness and complexity of eyes, I'm afraid that doesn't constitute "evidence of God" any more than pointing to any other natural phenomena and saying the same thing. "I see a flower, and it's very beautiful and perfect looking, that proves to me that god exists." That sort of thing. It's a nice sentiment, but it isn't evidence of god or anything of the sort.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>While it's very cool that you appreciate the coolness and complexity of eyes, I'm afraid that doesn't constitute "evidence of God"<< Not only does it not constitute evidence, it shoots holes in the "designer" theory that is so chic right now. What kind of a designer would make something upside-down? That doesn't make much sense. What kind of a designer gives people a worthless organ that can kill them if it gets infected? Of course, the appendix makes a lot more sense when viewed through the lens of evolution. That said, if your argument is that God simply got the ball rolling and evolution is real, then these problems go away. And I know a good many thoughtful religious people adopt this perspective. But they aren't the same people pushing "intelligent design," which is just a cover band for creationism.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Trees, fruit, flowers..music*** Well, sure. Thing is though, and I DO appreciate the sentiment, but to me it really speaks more to the infinite variety in the universe. But when people mention stuff like eyes, flowers, other "beautiful" stuff and try to call that evidence of god, and not only that but evidence that god is so GOOD and PURE, well the big picture includes far more. Mass extinctions, disease, famine, the cruel randomness of nature in who eats and who gets eaten, poisonous plants that kill the creatures that try to eat it, etc., and that's even before you factor in the damage created by "God's chosen creature" man, well, it's just a lot more complex than that. Did god hate the dinosaurs or something? There's just so much chaos and randomness to life, and granted that's what makes it very special as well, but it's not some grand cosmic beauty-fest by any stretch. There's plenty of good and bad to be seen.
Originally Posted By pecos bill It has always amused me that if we were indeed Gods "chosen" creatures, then why can our closest cousin, the Chimpanzee, physically rip us to shreds? Indeed, if going by physical strength, stamina, speed and graceful beauty, I would have to use a quote from the Lion King, and say we were on the shallow end of the gene pool! May I further insist, the greatest barrier to understanding the complex nature and intelligence of other species is our own insufferable arrogance.
Originally Posted By pecos bill As long as I have some time... If Mankind represents Gods crowning achievment, then the perfection of God must be questioned.
