Originally Posted By pecos bill The purpose of life is procreation. Anyone can have a personal interpretation of their purpose, but the cold, hard fact stands.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Procreation is ONE of the purposes of life. Sure, that's a warm, wonderful fact.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Life cannot be perpetuated without procreation. So I would say the purpose of procreation is life, not the other way around necessarily. The pupose of life is a deeper question and is one that humanity has never been able to answer. Perhaps the answer is that there is no purpose?? If that's the case then the question should probably remain unanswered. Life without any sense of purpose would lead to anarchy and would greatly lessen the quality of life going forward.
Originally Posted By johnno52 >Procreation is ONE of the purposes of life. Sure, that's a warm, wonderful fact.< But isn't this why Adam & Eve were kicked out of Eden? I'm sure many don't believe it was for just eating an apple.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I do not believe Adam and Eve's "eating of the fruit" was figurative for sex. I believe God commanded Adam and Eve to not partake of the fruit of a tree in the Garden, or they would die (ie, be kicked out of the garden and enter mortality)
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf "I disagree. I believe the whole notion of Heaven and Hell began when God taught Prophets about the purpose of life from the very beginning." I'm not really sure about that. I believe the concept of the afterlife pre-dates judeo-christian tradition and in fact a lot of the judeo-christian beliefs have come from ancient Assyrian and Sumerian beliefs. I'm pretty sure that the earliest judeo prophets revealed very little about the afterlife. Instead, both heaven and hell are concepts that have evolved along with the socio-economic status of the believers. The concept you describe as heaven being similar to this world is a very modern concept. In fact, I find it very interesting you made that point. As mankind gets closer to achieving divine powers (healing, extending life indefitinely, etc.) the concept of heaven becomes more similar to what our world looks like.
Originally Posted By johnno52 >the concept of heaven becomes more similar to what our world looks like.< I think many golfers will hope it looks like the Augusta golf course last weekend. I think it was even mentioned by one of the announcers.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Actually, golf courses are closer to hell in my book. I suck out loud!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It seems very ironic to me that those who feel that Walt Disney is infallible would doubt the existence of God. Oh well... I am not a traditionally religious person. I am nominally Catholic, but I do not attend mass regularly. But I have seen God. I've seen him in my wife. I've seen him in my children. I know he is there because there is no way a schmuck like me could have the wonderful life that I have without a very kind and forgiving God. I've seen miracles in my life. I'm sure others maybe wouldn't see them as miracles, but they were to me. I started to compose a post which would really elaborate on my belief and the events in my life that supported that belief. But then I realized my post would be worthless. Either you believe in God or you don't. I won't try to prove it to anyone. I don't need to. It would be about as worthless as trying to prove the existence of black holes, or the big bang, or a million other things that we cannot prove but tend to accept because it coincides with current scientific thought. You choose to believe or not believe. I believe that my life is much better because I choose to believe. I can’t prove it is. You can’t prove it isn’t. It is what it is.
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains I have to believe in God - My grandfather told me he did and he told my that he has missed my grandmother since she passed in 4/06 - He told me he felt peace that when he had to leave us he would then be back with his one true love in Heaven smiling down on us watching over all of us lovingly. Grandpa joined Grandma on Easter day this year - I believe him - they are sitting up their with God and His Son looking down at me and my family lovingly everyday. I believe this not only because it makes losing my Grandfather a bit easier knowing he is with Grandma - but because Grandpa told me this was so and my Grandfather has never lied to me. So yes I do believe.
Originally Posted By Mr X Interesting that you brought up post 89, passholder. I do appreciate the sentiment of it, the idea that you can't convince anyone else of what it is you think is true (or at least it seems that way here on LP anyway lol). HOWEVER, I had a big problem with this part... ***But I have seen God. I've seen him in my wife. I've seen him in my children. I know he is there because there is no way a schmuck like me could have the wonderful life that I have without a very kind and forgiving God.*** What bugs me about this is, what about those that DON'T have wonderful lives? What about the kind, generous, always giving person who experiences nothing but heartache and misery throughout life? What about the nine year old bald kid with inoperable cancer? What about the Jewish family condemned to die in the death camps? What about the African family born into unbelievable poverty, where if they don't starve that serves as a "good day". Thing is RoadTrip, you are a lucky person. Actually, any of us writing on a computer and enjoying our hobbies are pretty damned lucky, in comparison to so many others who found their lot in life to be a very different thing. Why, then, would you attribute your good fortune to some god? Do you believe he likes you more, or something? This, I really can't see. If anything, I discount the idea of some sort of "god" in some ways BECAUSE I've been so fortunate. I did nothing to deserve it. I was born into it. Others are better off than me, many, many are far worse off. Who's to say they are more or less deserving? And what does any of that have to do with god?
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf I was thinking the same thing Mr. X. It is easy to "see God" when everything is going well, but what about when it isn't? I certainly don't knock anyone for believing in god - I have my own beliefs. But is it possible that we like to settle on the easiest definiton of god because we don't want to ask the question, "what is god like?" anymore? The general belief that god is good and god wants good things to happen to you seems a bit unfair to those that have bad things happen to them. Does god hate you then if your life sucks? Does god not want you to believe in him if you live in misery? If there is a god, I have a hard time believing he is a jerk like this.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder ***But I have seen God. I've seen him in my wife. I've seen him in my children. I know he is there because there is no way a schmuck like me could have the wonderful life that I have without a very kind and forgiving God.*** I know exactly what he means. I've also seen God in the eyes of my brother who went blind 4-5 years ago, because he abused his body and the gifts he was given as a human being. God works in a myriad of ways, both good and what many perceive to be bad. It ain't all sunshine and roses, and as I said in the medical care and faith thread, your version of God seems to be what you think others are talking about, when it isn't necessarily that way.
Originally Posted By pecos bill If we are all so spiritually connected, then why arent short, fat, bald guys going out with beautiful women? It's called natural selection. It galls me as well when people who have things going their way call themselves blessed, as if they have somehow been selected above the rest of us "losers". May "God" forbid an atheist to look upon his children and be filled with a sense of unbridled love and affection! May "God" forbid an atheist to look out into the starry sky and be filled with a sense of awe and wonder! Of course, as any good Christian knows, atheists are simply incapable of such feelings.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Thing is RoadTrip, you are a lucky person. Actually, any of us writing on a computer and enjoying our hobbies are pretty damned lucky, in comparison to so many others who found their lot in life to be a very different thing.>> I wasn't talking about being wealthy. I wasn't talking about being healthy. I wasn't talking about being blessed because I think I am a better person than anyone. I was talking about looking into the eyes of my wife and children and seeing love which to me is seeing God. Anyone, regardless of circumstance, is capable of loving and being loved. Why is God love? Well, my Sunday School teacher told me that God is Love for one thing. ;-) But to me God is love because it is the deepest and most powerful emotion we are capable of. Yet looking at 'natural selection' it has very little use. Hunger keeps us alive. Our sex drive continues the species. Love if anything gets in the way of self preservation. It gets in the way of sex as procreation. So why do we have this wonderful and powerful capability that serves no real purpose as far as survival of the species goes? We have it because God gave it to us. God is love. I don't always express things as well as I would like, but I think you can understand what I'm trying to get at.
Originally Posted By ecdc I don't think RoadTrip was saying "all is swell in the world!" He's a bright guy who I'm sure is well aware of the massive suffering in the world. I have my own explanations for love and for his perspective, but I like the way he's phrased this and I respect his ideas. I think we use terms in religious discussions without perhaps appreciating that these terms mean different things. We casually throw around words like "god" without even necessarily agreeing on what we mean by that. We often picture a giant space daddy; but that's not how some people mean God. The notion that "god is love" is not necessarily an idea that has to be anathema to atheists. Perhaps RT does believe in the giant space daddy in the sky I don't know. But plenty of people believe god is much less defined, and they see him in their lives without feeling the need to constrain him or box him into religious definitions.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Thanks for the clarification RoadTrip - that was very beautifully said.
Originally Posted By pecos bill I understand and appreciate how powerful love is, I just dont believe it is exclusive to our species. We give ourselves far too much credit in regard to that particular emotion.
Originally Posted By DlandJB Of course, as any good Christian knows, atheists are simply incapable of such feelings.>>> Not so. We are all capable of feeling it. God doesn't just put these things here for believers -- but for everyone. Why? Because until we breathe our last breathe we are capable of making the connection with God. He doesn't withhold those things from anyone. He is always close and always trying to touch your heart. The real test isn't when things are happy and glorious, but when the trials and sufferings come. It is easy to feel great when all is well. But, as I see it, happiness is mostly based on circumstances. Joy is a gift that can be in your heart even when life stinks. Most of Paul's letters in the New Testament (Phillipians in particular) were written while he was in a Roman prison. Not exactly the most joyful place to be...but he still expressed joy of knowing God's promise.
