Originally Posted By SpokkerJones When pitching high speed rail, Obama said that one of the selling points is that you won't be standing in a line for screening. Well, it's already happening on a random basis on Amtrak. Right now the California project is planning "secure areas" for their stations. That means you'll have to pass through a fare gate or some other type of security to reach your train. They will also be separating high speed rail from Caltrain, to give one example, making it more difficult to transfer to other services. Contrast this to Germany where high speed rail stations are made as simple as possible for riders. No fare gates. No bag checks. No pat downs. They don't shut down the entire station is someone accidentally leaves a duffle bag on a platform. Transferring trains means a very, very short walk. To illustrate, here's what a terminus station looks like: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/nobbiusa/1726496651/in/photostream/lightbox/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/n...ightbox/</a> Here's a huge panoramic shot of a mainline station: <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/alendri/4753801266/sizes/o/in/photostream/" target="_blank">http://www.flickr.com/photos/a...ostream/</a> Unfortunately, our stations will not only be overbuilt and way too expensive, but convoluted and full of security theater, barriers and unneeded mezzanines. At the San Francisco station, the elevator from the train platforms won't even go to the street. You have to go up to the mezzanine and then find ANOTHER elevator to get to the street. So much for making it easy for the disabled. That's one aspect of the American rail plans that I hate.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Oh man, pointless. The whole point of high speed rail is for ease. The security for Eurostar is warrented given the international and tunnel aspect. But our dommestic train, you simply get on after putting your ticket in the gate (like BART)
Originally Posted By fkurucz "That bad, eh?" We're thinking of it as "insurance", because if the SHTF in the US Americans will find that the welcome mat for them will be removed in most if not all countries (unless they have a LOT of money). Of course even today emmigating is a lot harder than most Americans realize it is. Just contact the local consulate of any European country and see how hard it is to move there permanently, especially if you want to work there.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "The security for Eurostar is warrented given the international and tunnel aspect." Germany's ICE high speed trains traverse three countries and security isn't even as high as Eurostar.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo True, though the rules on UK border control are more stringent, plus the channel tunnel is sadly seen as a significant terrorist target.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>> Of course even today emmigating is a lot harder than most Americans realize it is. Just contact the local consulate of any European country and see how hard it is to move there permanently, especially if you want to work there.<<< It is difficult to get in, and even stay in. And I get tired of having to present my passport every time I start working with a client. One of my clients, I send my paperwork to someone that wasn't even born when I moved here.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros >>Right now the California project is planning "secure areas" for their stations. That means you'll have to pass through a fare gate or some other type of security to reach your train.<< From my understanding, the name 'secure' refers not to an actual security checkpoint, but the area inside the turnstyles. Unlike LA's Metro system and Metrolink, where you just walk up to a train and get on, and occasionally employees come around to check tickets, the HSR will be more like traditional subways with turnstyles. The systems in San Francisco, New York, London, Paris, DC, Beijing, and basically all other major cities around the world require some sort of payment or ticket before you have access to the station platforms. The 'secure areas' at the HSR stations are just going to be the areas within the turnstyles. If you can find some recent documents (last 4-6 months), you'll notice that they're changing the name of this area to the 'paid area' to make it more clear. There may also be some sort of security checkpoint (I think it would be silly not to, or at least leave space in the stations for one to be built in the future), but at this time there are no real plans for that.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Proof of payment is much more superior to fare gates for the California rail systems. Low cost and fare checkers double as eyes and ears. On Metro, LA County Sheriff check tickets. Fare evasion is very low under proof of payment and fare evasion is not zero with fare gates. The LA Metro fare gates will cost more to install and maintain than the amount they will prevent in fare evasion, and again, fare evasion is about 1% even with fare gates. Fare evasion is about 4-5% without fare gates. When they are caught, the fine is $250 and/or community service. Sounds good to me.
Originally Posted By Manfried "Contrast this to Germany where high speed rail stations are made as simple as possible for riders. No fare gates. No bag checks. No pat downs. They don't shut down the entire station is someone accidentally leaves a duffle bag on a platform. Transferring trains means a very, very short walk." And do you think that will be the case here? No, we have threats, and will end up having pat downs. Nice naive thinking.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones There will definitely be airport style security on high speed rail. We have plenty of paranoia and security theater.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones The Florida Supreme Court ruled that the governor can reject the money for high speed rail. LaHood has said that the $2.4 billion will be distributed to other states. Well, assuming their governors don't also reject the money. In any case, high speed train service in Florida can be considered shelved for at least four years.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Oh, and an update to the TSA on trains issue. The chief of Amtrak police has banned the TSA from Amtrak property. The police chief said that Amtrak doesn't do more than randomly check passengers' bags (I've never actually encountered the bag check and I ride often). He said that if the TSA wants to return to Amtrak stations, they will not be allowed to wand or pat down passengers. All they can do is what Amtrak police already do, randomly check bags.
Originally Posted By Socrates Standing up to them? Who do you mean? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones The Amtrak police told the TSA to get off of Amtrak property for mistreating passengers.
Originally Posted By Socrates Mistreating passengers? How? Socrates "The unexamined life is not worth living."
Originally Posted By Mr X ***No, we have threats, and will end up having pat downs*** Plenty of countries have threats. Plenty of countries have been attacked by terrorists, some more than America (keeping in mind the fact that 9/11 was obviously a huge one). The fact that the country has turned itself upside down in response must be a source of extreme pride for the victorious terrorists.
