Originally Posted By MPierce >> However, it doesn't change my belief that much of the criticism toward the current Prez is because 'he isn't one of us' ...oh, and I have not been a huge fan of his work, thus far. Of course, the other party has just decided to say NO to everything and act like the next three years don't matter. With the USA in the state it is in, I find that behavior disgusting and reprehensible. << When you are not invited to participate, and are completely shut out of the process, the usual way to respond is with a resounding, and unanimous no. I think it's going to be very difficult to get any bipartisin action for at least the next 8 months. That's a shame, but a harsh reality. >> I actually supported Bush's daddy (shocking, I know!) ... and nothing above makes YOU a racist. I don't want to talk about you though (unless I can take my cheap shots!) ... I am talking about the great unwashed, unthinking masses. You know ... the ones who fart in your face in a queue at the MK and think it's funny! << So did I until I discovered the direction I felt he was taking my Country in. My father, a lifelong Democrat warned me about both of the Bush's. >> Trying to fix a broken healthcare system doesn't anger me at all. << I agree, but it's how you go about fixing it that matters. >> Again, there's a large portion of our population that believes medical care isn't a right. That belief imemdiately causes me to generally dismiss them. << It still boils down to the fact that somebody has to pay for that right. >> If my taxes are constantly going toward things I disapprove of, then those healthcare haters are going to have to deal with doing likewise. << I don't think anybody hates health care. I just think that some of us feel this is not the proper way to go about getting it. We shall see long term which side was correct in their assumptions. >> Not really ... besides, Lost is coming on shortly and I will get lost for that! << I just wish somebody would tell me how those darn Polar Bears got there. I watched another episode of it (the one with the nuclear bomb going off) a couple of weeks ago, and I admit there is some very good acting going on. I just wish I had watched it from the beginning. I guess I will eventually have to rent all the old shows. Maybe my wife will rent them for me when she trys to have me confined in a nursing home. >> But does anyone to this day know what's in the Patriot Act? << USA PATRIOT Act (H.R. 3162)(a) SHORT TITLE- This Act may be cited as the `Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism ... epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html - Cached - Similar USA PATRIOT Act - Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)Note: H.R. 3162, the USA PATRIOT Act, incorporated provisions of two earlier ... All Information (except text), Text of Legislation · CRS Summary ... thomas.loc.gov › THOMAS Home › Bills, Resolutions - Cached - Similar EPIC - USA Patriot ActInformation overview and news updates from the Electronic Privacy Information Center. epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/ - Cached - Similar EFF: EFF Analysis of USA PATRIOT Act (Oct. 31, 2001)Oct 31, 2001 ... EFF Analysis Of The Provisions Of The USA PATRIOT Act. That Relate To Online Activities (October 31, ... Executive Summary. Chief Concerns ... w2.eff.org/Privacy/.../20011031_eff_usa_patriot_analysis.php - Cached - Similar USA PATRIOT Actfrwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=107... - Similar American Civil Liberties UnionSenior White House officials reportedly have begun circulating a summary of the draft .... Call Now for Passage of the Employment Non-Discrimination Act ... www.aclu.org/ - 1 hour ago - Cached - Similar A Guide to the Patriot Act, Part 1 - By Dahlia Lithwick and Julia ...Sep 8, 2003 ... Article describes the legislation, how it has been implemented and support and opposition to it. By Dahlia Lithwick and Julia Turner in Slate. www.slate.com/id/2087984/ - 18 hours ago - Cached - Similar EFF: USA PATRIOT Act as Passed by Congress - H.R. 3162 - (Oct. 25 ...USA PATRIOT Act as Passed by Congress. Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act ... w2.eff.org/Privacy/Surveillance/Terrorism/hr3162.php - Cached - Similar Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001 (Enrolled as ... thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.3162.enr: - Cached - Similar Features - The USA PATRIOT Act and Patron Privacy on Library ...Feb 15, 2002 ... President Bush signed the USA PATRIOT Act into law on October 26, 2001. ... The USA PATRIOT Act stands for the Uniting and Strengthening ... www.llrx.com/features/usapatriotact.htm - [PDF] The USA PATRIOT Act: A SketchFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View by C Doyle - Cited by 25 - Related articles Summary. Congress passed the USA PATRIOT Act (the Act) in response to the terrorists' attacks of September 11, 2001. The Act gives federal officials greater ... www.fas.org/irp/crs/RS21203.pdf [PDF] The USA PATRIOT Act: A Legal AnalysisFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View by C Doyle - Cited by 17 - Related articles The USA PATRIOT Act: A Legal Analysis. Summary. The USA PATRIOT Act passed in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks. It flows from a consultation ... www.fas.org/irp/crs/RL31377.pdf - Similar Summary of the USA PATRIOT ACTOct 30, 2008 ... Summary of the USA PATRIOT ACT Web Version: <a href="http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/highlights.htm" target="_blank">http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/...ghts.htm</a> The USA PATRIOT Act: Preserving Life and Liberty ... www.docstoc.com/docs/.../Summary-of-the-USA-PATRIOT-ACT/ - Cached USA PATRIOT Act - Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)Note: H.R. 3162, the USA PATRIOT Act, incorporated provisions of two earlier ... All Information (except text), Text of Legislation · CRS Summary ... thomas.loc.gov › THOMAS Home › Bills, Resolutions - Cached - Similar EPIC - USA Patriot ActUSA Patriot Act. News |; Introduction |; History |; Overview |; Analysis ... For more information, see the EPIC PATRIOT Act FOIA Litigation Page. (Nov. ... epic.org/privacy/terrorism/usapatriot/ - Cached - Similar NPR: The Patriot Act: Key ControversiesAs key provisions of the Patriot Act come up for renewal, NPR examines the act's most ... Hourly News Summary. [4 min 45 sec]. Latest NPR Newscast ... www.npr.org/news/specials/patriotact/patriotactprovisions.html - Similar NACDL Summary of USA PATRIOT ActNACDL Summary of USA PATRIOT Act. What's Out: McDade-Murtha Law repeal: would have repealed the McDade-Murtha Law and divested state authorities of their ... www.criminaljustice.org/.../6DFC470F0930ABAD85256B06005AF56D?... - Cached - Similar THE PATRIOT ACT II: TERRORIZING THE AMERICAN PEOPLETHE PATRIOT ACT II: TERRORIZING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. EXECUTIVE SUMMARY. On February 7, 2003, the Washington-based Center for Public Integrity released a ... gunowners.org/patriotii.htm - Cached - Similar Patriot Act: Definition from Answers.comPatriot Act The USA Patriot Act was passed by Congress as a response to the ... H.R. 3199, Bill Summary and Status. Supportive views. The Patriot Act and ... www.answers.com/topic/patriot-act - Cached - Similar ENJOY!
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Because the current system is a disaster. Period. << It certainly needs improving, but it is far from a disaster for most Americans. >> And I never have nor will support it. I don't believe in 'too big to fail' at all. << I know that. You were adamantly against the passage of the stimulous bill, as was I, when Bush was ramming it home. It's a shame that the bipartisin effort to block it ended in failure. >> Honestly, I feel that most TPers have an IQ of an average winter day in Wasilla. That's based on listening to them and reading what they have to say. Not simply judging them. << They are not politically polished, and or still rough around the edges. That's what makes them a genuine movement. They haven't become slick, and politically savy yet. They do not have a legitamate leader yet. >> Nope. And I am not speaking of you. I would NEVER use that term to describe you. But I doubt you are naive enough to not think it is a factor. This IS the USA and he IS the first Prez of color in a very messed up era. Only a fool would suggest that racism isn't simmering below the surface in many of the attacks on the man. << Are there racist out there, certainly. However I believe the underlying factor in the battle that is taking place in America is with policy, and race plays very little in that. Race is actually only brought up in attempts to trump any discussion of policy. >> I just think it's funny to call people baby killers for kicks ... it's like ripping fanbois on a Disney site. A Spirit's gotta have some fun in this absurd world. << Having fun in this sometimes absurd world we live in is essential. >> I have said and maintain the firm belief that most folks are crazy. And that it has little to do with political affiliation/beliefs etc ... << As the poet Jim Morris once sang "People are Strange".
Originally Posted By MPierce >> RE: posts 76 & 77: I'm actually trying to follow the teaching method named after me, a method preferable to my stating an opinion because (knowing how these boards are) I doubt you'd believe my opinion anyway. <, I'm sorry you feel I would doubt a stated opinion you made. You really don't know me. >> Having said that, I think a case can be made that Saddam had been neutralized and remained a threat to his people only. << I really hate to use this, but that's what a lot of people thought about Hitler, and Stalin. I've learned from history that Tyrants seldom confine themselves to the boarders of their own country. Especially when their goal is dominance of a region. Ask Saudi Arabia how they felt about Saddam Hussein. >> Further, I think the current oil market is a two-way street: yes, we need the oil, but the oil producers also have to sell it. And if memory serves, Saddam was deeply in debt because of his military spending and palace building. So perhaps we would've gotten the oil anyway; the only question was at what price? << You certainly pinpointed my concerns when you noted at the end "at what price".
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Anyway, this article did express optimism for GM's future, and I mention it because I've recently seen several posts denigrating GM's management and the bailout in general. Personally, I am not happy the bailout was done, but there is at least a chance the deal could actually work to the government's advantage in the long run. << I certainly hope GM pulls it off. Don't get me wrong I'm pulling for them. My only question from the get go was, has this been handled in the proper manner or could GMC achieved the same thing by restructuring after going through a bankrupcy procedure? Now what was this thread about again? I think it has morphed into an attempt to keep this forum from turning into a ghost town.
Originally Posted By MPierce <<Now what was this thread about again?>> >> Toyota taking over management of the WDW transportation department. (tasteless shot No. 2 hurled at Toyota) << Did you go out, and buy some GM stock this morning?
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Wow, this thread moved quickly. I wanted to follow up on something way back in post 70: MPierce: Usenet was a message board-type system that was very popular way back in the 1980's among nerds (back before nerds became cool). I used to spend hours every day participating in chats there. It seemed like Usenet would last forever, and in fact it's still around, sort of, just barely, but hardly anybody goes there anymore. Message boards like this one replaced it. Someday, something else will replace these. It's the Circle of Life. (I had to get a Disney reference in there somehow.) << Thanks for the information Alex. I am really naive when it comes to things concerning the internet. I am resistent to change, and technollogy by nature. I think you are right though. All things run their coarse in life....and a great Elton John song by the way.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> Side note - when do you suppose we'll get the NTSB report on the monorail accident? << Shouldn't it have followed closely on the heals of the report by OSHA?
Originally Posted By MPierce "I admit to being tempted to post on WE of late, but I always get smart" >> stay smart Spirit - don't do it - you'll regret it - trust me. \there is no middle ground there.. << Sound advice. I've learned my lesson.
Originally Posted By MPierce >> It seemed like the general rule used to be that tangents are allowed, but politics need to stay in WE. The mods have always been a little more lax about what's said in WE, but it seems like they're keeping those standards for things that are being said in non-WE threads that have drifted away from the topic. It's probably not the worst thing in the world, but I don't really enjoy it, especially when I'm going through a bunch of threads at once and come across several in a row that are simply complaining about former Presidents.<< Sometimes the flow of natural conversation does take directions like that. However it should not be looked down upon if a respose is made to a statemnt. Without a respose it would be merely a constant stream of one persons opinion.
Originally Posted By FerretAfros It just seems like there are a lot of topics that get taken on tangents and end up in very similar places. It seems like it doesn't really matter what the original post was about, since they all eventually end up talking politics, and a relatively limited frame of topics within that. Or maybe I'm reading into things the wrong way...
Originally Posted By -em >>Without a respose it would be merely a constant stream of one persons opinion<< True but what has happened in a lot of topics (not so much in WDW Gen but it has happened here) is that Person A would post with opinion A. Person B would comment with opinion B which would be in opposition or dissension of opinion A. Person C,D,E or A would come in and chastise Person B for not seeing things the "right" way and they were in fact wrong. Add a few personal attacks against B and any supporters of B you have what has driven many long time posters from LP. Tangents are a whole other issue- -em
Originally Posted By Socrates This is moving quickly! I want to clarify exactly what I meant when I said "...I doubt you'd believe my opinion anyway." I meant that as a general statement about these boards, certainly not aimed at MPierce or any specific individual. I learned a long time ago that I cannot always count on overwhelming people with the magnificence of my presence. In other words, I doubt I can ever change anyone's mind just because I said something. However, if I can get people to think a bit deeper with a well-placed question... BTW, the older I get, the more I appreciate how complex the world really is. Socrates "I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance."
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 "I admit to being tempted to post on WE of late, but I always get smart" <<stay smart Spirit - don't do it - you'll regret it - trust me. \there is no middle ground there..>> I have no intention of doing it. Just been reading a bit since every other forum here has been so dead. And being someone who has always considered himself a very moderate Spirit, the polarization in this country these days really scares me.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<Have you been poaching aligators in the Everglades again?>> A Spirit has to eat ... tastes just like chicken (seriously) ... and they used to serve it at the Grand Fla Cafe (seriously). >> I remember more than I have forgotten. << <<And I have forgotten more than I remember.>> Mrs. Pierce said the same thing when she was discussing those 'adult diapers' she was buying in bulk!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<When you are not invited to participate, and are completely shut out of the process, the usual way to respond is with a resounding, and unanimous no. I think it's going to be very difficult to get any bipartisin action for at least the next 8 months. That's a shame, but a harsh reality.>> I don't disagree. But why were they shut out of the process? Could it be because they lost the last election in a landslide? It's always easier to criticize others rather than looking long and hard at what's wrong with oneself. In politics no one ever admits they are wrong until they go to jail. And the Prez did try and include the others ... they simply didn't want to be involved because they don't want to fix healthcare. It isn't a priority. It's like their fixation with abortion. It's great to care about babies that haven't been born. But what about when they are? And when they or their mothers can't get healthcare? Then what? Pray? >> I actually supported Bush's daddy (shocking, I know!) ... and nothing above makes YOU a racist. I don't want to talk about you though (unless I can take my cheap shots!) ... I am talking about the great unwashed, unthinking masses. You know ... the ones who fart in your face in a queue at the MK and think it's funny! << <<So did I until I discovered the direction I felt he was taking my Country in. My father, a lifelong Democrat warned me about both of the Bush's. >> I just am truly glad Jeb hasn't decided to take his game to the next level. >> Trying to fix a broken healthcare system doesn't anger me at all. << <<I agree, but it's how you go about fixing it that matters.>> True. >> Again, there's a large portion of our population that believes medical care isn't a right. That belief imemdiately causes me to generally dismiss them. << <<It still boils down to the fact that somebody has to pay for that right.>> We all pay now. Our taxes. Our productivity. It amazes me that some folks (again, not you Pierce) believe that when folks go to hospitals without insurance (and for issues that could have been dealt with by docs when they were less serious and less costly had said people had insurance) and then wrack up ER bills in five, six and even seven figures and can't pay a penny that the HEALTH FAIRY steps in. We all pay for it now. I think if we're going to pay, America deserves to see something for our money! >> If my taxes are constantly going toward things I disapprove of, then those healthcare haters are going to have to deal with doing likewise. << <<I don't think anybody hates health care. I just think that some of us feel this is not the proper way to go about getting it. We shall see long term which side was correct in their assumptions.>> I should have said hates healthcare reform. Sorry bout that. Many think if they've got it good than screw everyone else. >> Not really ... besides, Lost is coming on shortly and I will get lost for that! << <<I just wish somebody would tell me how those darn Polar Bears got there. I watched another episode of it (the one with the nuclear bomb going off) a couple of weeks ago, and I admit there is some very good acting going on. I just wish I had watched it from the beginning. I guess I will eventually have to rent all the old shows. Maybe my wife will rent them for me when she trys to have me confined in a nursing home.>> You can't watch Lost in the middle. You truly must go back and start with Season 1 and watch from there. USA Today recently named it the best drama of the last decade and I agree. It is a very deep show and one that you can't half ass your viewership of ... like a Two and a Half Men or CSI. I am going to be lost without it!
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<It just seems like there are a lot of topics that get taken on tangents and end up in very similar places. It seems like it doesn't really matter what the original post was about, since they all eventually end up talking politics, and a relatively limited frame of topics within that. Or maybe I'm reading into things the wrong way...>> No, I think you're reading them right ... if you talking this board in the past few days. But that's largely because the place is dead and old man Pierce and I like pretending that we disagree on most things to fool the rest of the kiddies. No one wants to talk about Disney ... and I really wonder why that is.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<True but what has happened in a lot of topics (not so much in WDW Gen but it has happened here) is that Person A would post with opinion A. Person B would comment with opinion B which would be in opposition or dissension of opinion A. Person C,D,E or A would come in and chastise Person B for not seeing things the "right" way and they were in fact wrong. Add a few personal attacks against B and any supporters of B you have what has driven many long time posters from LP.>> OK, so I'll know for the future ... is Poster B nuts? And is Poster A ... um ... ah ... how to say this delicately ... ah ... doing Poster E? And does Poster C really only eat chicken fingers for every meal? Just asking ...
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<BTW, the older I get, the more I appreciate how complex the world really is.>> Funny, old wise one, the older I get, the more I realize that things ... well, the important things are really a lot simpler than most folks want to believe.
Originally Posted By leobloom >> I just am truly glad Jeb hasn't decided to take his game to the next level. << But he'd have the Hispanic vote locked up! (kidding, kidding) >> You can't watch Lost in the middle. You truly must go back and start with Season 1 and watch from there. USA Today recently named it the best drama of the last decade and I agree. It is a very deep show and one that you can't half ass your viewership of ... like a Two and a Half Men or CSI. I am going to be lost without it! << That Richard Alpert episode was almost worth the wait. I can only hope the rest of the season measures up to that one.
Originally Posted By Spirit of 74 <<That Richard Alpert episode was almost worth the wait. I can only hope the rest of the season measures up to that one.>> I think I'm going to watch it again ... I didn't love it at first, but the more I thought about it, discussed it and read the endless blogs/reviews, I realized that it was very, very good.
