Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt "If we go by that then Splash Mountain shouldn't even be around because song of the south wasn't a box office success and I bet less than 1% of the visitors to the Disney parks have even heard of the film much less the book/tales it's based on." Yep, and how when was the last Indiana Jones film made? Do people under 40 even know what the Twighlight Zone TV series was?
Originally Posted By leemac <<Well, not the same thing, not even close. Splash is one attraction, a log ride with a little song of the South thrown in. Toad is one small dark ride.>> And Splash was a huge step up in terms of attraction experience - not only an AA-filled log flume but also one of the longest and tallest flume rides ever built. RSR is Test Track with limited speed.
Originally Posted By leemac <<This is wandering off topic, but we finally saw Carsland for the first time today. It's nice and all, but it doesn't seem to have any sustainability. The first movie is already seven years old, the sequel is two, and while the movies were ok, who's going to care in 5-10 years?>> I'm not quite that skeptical about Cars Land's longevity. I think the quality of the execution will be enough to make guests enjoy the experience in the future even when the dire movies fade from people's memories (or when Mattel finally stop selling the diecasts!). However it is c.17% of the entire area of the park and offers up three attractions. It gobbled up valuable real estate. Single themed lands are always going to be put under more pressure than the usual DL-type lands when it comes to renewal etc. but the sheer cost of Cars Land will mean it is around for a generation at least. Accounting will want it to hit that 25 year milestone!
Originally Posted By leemac <<Do people under 40 even know what the Twighlight Zone TV series was?>> Thankfully those licensing costs were pretty low hence why TZ was used. I still think that the imagineering team got more of a kick out of using Serling than the vast majority of guests do! ToT could have easily been created without the TZ concept - just like TDS' version. I guess they thought that ToT needed a movie-type tie-in for the D/MGM park.
Originally Posted By leemac <<If we go by that then Splash Mountain shouldn't even be around because song of the south wasn't a box office success>> If you build an E-ticket well then it makes no difference what the underlying brand is. Splash is a great attraction, period. You don't need to know the movie or the characters to love the experience. Same goes for any of the branded E-tickets like IJA. I don't think it works as well with A-D ticket attractions these days. I don't think dark rides like Toad would be built today. Hence why the Pixar -based attractions have become so prevalent.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip To me, the whole horizontal motion portion of WDW's TOT is one of the BEST parts. Other than that, it is just another drop ride... a VERY GOOD drop ride, but just a drop ride. To me it is the horizontal motion segment that makes it unique. Would that be the same without the TZ tie-in? Personally, I don't think so.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>This is wandering off topic, but we finally saw Carsland for the first time today. It's nice and all, but it doesn't seem to have any sustainability. The first movie is already seven years old, the sequel is two, and while the movies were ok, who's going to care in 5-10 years?<<< Is Cars LAnd on trial, because it is a land and not just a single ride? Because otherwise one might argue that the early Disney movies are still represented in the parks and people still like the attractions. Even Snow White is used again in Florida and new animated movies like TLM are also newla incorporated to the parks.
Originally Posted By leemac <<To me, the whole horizontal motion portion of WDW's TOT is one of the BEST parts.>> We will have to disagree on that one. That horizontal shift from shaft to shaft was poorly executed from both a creative and technical standpoint IMHO. There is no sense of suspense or surprise - it takes too long to lock into position with nothing but darkness. There is a sense of anticipation I guess but with the light leakage and the cage locking into place it just destroys the overall illusion for me.
Originally Posted By dagobert >>>We will have to disagree on that one. That horizontal shift from shaft to shaft was poorly executed from both a creative and technical standpoint IMHO. There is no sense of suspense or surprise - it takes too long to lock into position with nothing but darkness. There is a sense of anticipation I guess but with the light leakage and the cage locking into place it just destroys the overall illusion for me.<<< WDW's version of TOT is different to all other TOTs worldwide. I think in Paris the cage loads quicker into the elevator shaft. Additionally DLP has the cool mirror effect.
Originally Posted By leemac <<I think in Paris the cage loads quicker into the elevator shaft.>> That is solely because the cage only has to roll on one plane - from load to lock. In D/MGM ToT has multiple options for shaft lock-in and therefore needs to be able to rotate. It would be a lot quicker if it was just one plane of motion rather than any lateral movement.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "it takes too long to lock into position with nothing but darkness. There is a sense of anticipation I guess but with the light leakage and the cage locking into place it just destroys the overall illusion for me." We've discussed this many times, but I'm firmly in that camp also. The multiple shafts means there needs to be that lengthy process, if only for safety sake. So you can hear them making the safety checks, then double checking, etc. and it just takes me right out of it. The horizontal movement is cool, but the clunkiness once you get to the second shaft just isn't worth it on balance, to me. The single shaft design eliminates that horizontal movement, of course, but it makes for a more fluid, giddier experience. I think it's interesting that all the subsequent towers built have gone with the single shaft design.
Originally Posted By hbquikcomjamesl 1. Regarding Oz, I find nothing "definitive" about a 1939 musical that is filled with departures from canon ranging from minor annoyances to things that change the whole meaning of the story. 2. While I found Tron: Legacy to be a major disappointment, I regard the original Tron as one of my all-time favorite films, finding delight in every aspect of it, from the magnificent Wendy Carlos score to the backlit animation, to the basic plot and theme that make it "a religious film for computer geeks." 3. GMR is by far my favorite attraction in WDW/Studios, probably the only one there that I'd ride more than once per trip to Florida (by contrast, I've been to WDW at least three times, but ridden the original ToT exactly once, which is the same number of times I've ridden the DCA ToT. When I first rode Superstar Lemon, at the passholder soft-open of DCA, I was hoping for a mini-GMR, but instead got inside-jokes-on-parade. Which would be a pretty thin basis for an attraction, even if it had been in better taste.
Originally Posted By hbquikcomjamesl I probably wouldn't be quite so hostile to the 1939 MGM Oz if it weren't for the hordes of people who regard it as definitive, and never read ANY of the original 14 novels, or even condensed picture-book versions of them (I remember a "Little Golden Book" version of Road, and a Random House Pop-Up version of Wizard).
Originally Posted By mawnck >>if it weren't for the hordes of people who regard it as definitive, and never read ANY of the original 14 novels<< And you're on a DISNEY site?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<We will have to disagree on that one. That horizontal shift from shaft to shaft was poorly executed from both a creative and technical standpoint IMHO. >> Yes, we will just have to disagree. To me the horizontal movement is what moves it beyond the typical drop ride. It was totally unexpected... I had anticipated a ride where the elevator would just go up and then drop. The movement between shafts left me wondering what was next... would we now drop or was something else going to happen? I've only been on the ToT at WDW and DCA, and for me the WDW version is infinitely more enjoyable. That seemed to be early fan reaction also... at least as shown on posts here. People seemed to miss the horizontal portion and felt that they had been cheated out of the REAL experience due to Disney trying to create DCA on the cheap. I realize part of that was just the overall disappointment in DCA, and hard-core fans were just looking for things to take a shot at. But I still think most people who are just casual fans without inside connections or analyzing rides from a technical perspective, would find the WDW version more enjoyable.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <<To me, the whole horizontal motion portion of WDW's TOT is one of the BEST parts.>> We will have to disagree on that one. That horizontal shift from shaft to shaft was poorly executed from both a creative and technical standpoint IMHO. There is no sense of suspense or surprise - it takes too long to lock into position with nothing but darkness. There is a sense of anticipation I guess but with the light leakage and the cage locking into place it just destroys the overall illusion for me. > Totally agree. When I went on TOT for the first time, the show building (the horizontal movement part) was 30 degrees hotter than the rest of the ride (insulation is expensive I guess). It was very obviously a big, black box of a show building, and the movement was very clunky and obvious.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip For me at least, the movement between shafts is still one of the most interesting parts of the attraction. After dozens of rides, I still seem to notice something new in that show area every time through. And I guess I'm just a sucker for cheap effects, but I ABSOLUTELY LOVE the parting of the vertical white line as you enter the second shaft. Your mileage (obviously) may vary. By the way... I've never noticed the huge temperature difference that you talked about. I will have to be alert for it next time I ride.
Originally Posted By crazycroc This just in... Disney still not making an Baum inspired Oz land. They will be creating a mini-land based on the "Oz" series on HBO. You can purchase soap at the gift shop and remember not to drop it.
Originally Posted By hbquikcomjamesl > They will be creating a mini-land based > on the "Oz" series on HBO. <Bill Dana as Jose Jimenez>Oh, I hope not!</Bill Dana as Jose Jimenez>
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Bill Dana as Jose Jimenez<< Not sure whether to laugh or cry that I knew exactly what this refers to.
