Originally Posted By dlport I agree with those who said that the idea of PP was good, but the execution was missing in some areas. Screamin' works as a faux wooden coaster, and sets up the entire area as a classic seaside setting. The problems were in some attraction choices and form (space shot rides were not in classic parks, why put the "stinger" into a giant orange when it could have had classic lights and spun out over the water, and no dark ride), and the somewhat bland stretches of stucco instead of theming. Apparently some of these issues are being fixed, and if the rumors are true, even more changes are on the way. I am glad. It is a solid choice for a "land", so to speak, and with a little tinkering its execution will be improved.
Originally Posted By bean "I am looking foward to Toy Story Mania, but for the most part, Paradise Pier is a disgrace to everything that makes Disney great. It look some executives were talking about DCA and had a discussion like this:" Funny thing is that the idea of building an area themed to a boardwalk has been around for many many years. at one time it was even considered for Disneyland by the great man himself WALT. It would have been a clean, safe place that the whole family could enjoy. Just like circusland. It was also revived for Long Beach proposed disney themed area. So the idea of a Pier themed land is not out of the question for Disney. It is the execution of this version that was a mistake.
Originally Posted By Moon Waffle I like Paradise Pier. I feel like I'm at a real seaside amusement park. The coaster, the carnival-style rides, the music, the games. It transports me to another place. Now, why exactly is this "not Disney"?
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo >>>I'm one of the remaining few who survived the 'DCA Wars' circa 2001-2002 (Before your time). Yeah, those were the days. It was sort of like the Clone Wars in Star Wars...only no clones<<< Really? I thought a lot of the same tired arguements for and against had been cloned!
Originally Posted By oc_dean Welcome Ghosthost2 to Laughingplace.com! If you feel like you've landed into a pond full of posters who've been hanging around for a while ... it's because you have. I've been a poster since 2000. It was at that time this discussion board got pretty heated when Disneyland's 2nd gate was still a year away from opening. And since then ... it's been a wild ride with many here with some very strong opinions of DCA, including myself. Over time though ..... those discussions have come and gone. Completed. (That is - Completed by posters who've heard it before, and don't want to hear it again - despite new posters interested in discussing it!!!!) If you click on our profiles you'll discover we date anywhere in that earlier time period .. and by this point .... many have grown tired, settled, and a bit gripy any time someone wants to bring up the subject of DCA ... when they've heard it already. So ... if you hear lines like "Oh here we go again" ..... it's older posters who think the only people who come to LP are us same old settled posters, and seem to forget .... LP isn't ALL the same old posters day in and day out. We do get new posters interested in subjects that may be old to them ... but are new to you. (I'm being redundant to drive a point, by the way!) So ..... a message to all you old foggies ......... LP is not all old farts :~ We do get new posters interested in discussing this park. And about Paradise Pier .... Not sure if you know this..... The true 'brainchild' behind it ... was Michael Eisner's love of the older seaside amusement places on the eastcoast. He pushed it ... and that's how it got molded into place. Going against Walt's old principles where he has been noted to NEVER wanting a Disney park to be what PP is today! And while Midway Mania is 7 years too late .... I'm holding my breath on all these other rumored enhancements to PP. So far ... all talk .... and NO confirmation from Disney. It's only June 2007. You know ... one year is a long time. But at the rate they are going ...... it feels like it's going to take several lifetimes to get some REAL progress to take shape!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Fair point OC Dean. FWIW, if PP is done right, there is a lot of potential. I am quite excited about the rumoured and actual changes.
Originally Posted By oc_dean I'm very hopeful about this World of Color "Belagio Hotel" Type water show! By the sound of a couple stories ... that sounds like a go for sure ..... with the lake being drained ... isn't later this year? I can see myself going to this REGULARLY ... if it's anything on the par with Fantasmic! Steve Davidson is apparently part of this project. He's done GREAT things ... So I'm hopeful!
Originally Posted By WorldDisney What are you thoughts on the Boardwalk at Walt Disney World?" <<-I love the Boardwalk Resort at WDW. The place is very anti-Paradise Pier in so many ways. The Boardwalk resort is timeless in it's time-period set. The whole place is so regal and elegant.>> No fair Pitpan, I already used the words, 'regal' and 'elegant' waaay back in post #9. You can't just walk in here 30+ posts later and use the same descriptions!! Take it back....punk!!
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<-Kinda like a house is just a house right? Roof, bedrooms, bathroom, kitchen, ect. Compton or Laguna Beach, makes no difference. >> Hey there! Born and raised in Compton here . I think people will be quite surprised how nice the houses are in Compton now. They look like any area of West L.A., I can assure you. Maybe not Laguna Beach, but certainly something that any average person wouldn't mind living in. I certainly am surprised all the development there anytime I'm back in the states. Okay, slightly off topic lol, but yeah, you make a good point. That's what bothers me when people have to defend aspects of DCA that are criticized. All of sudden, DL is just some pale, genetic theme park just because area's like PP, Route 66 and the entrance ARE just pale, genetic theme park stuff and people are SERIOUSLY kidding themselves if they look at these area's and think they compare to anything of Disney quality across the esplanade. Not even CLOSE!!! But, like I said, the **FACT** that they are supposedly 'placemaking' these area's soon already tells you these area's are severely lacking in Disney magic and quality. So PP haters (that includes me ), take this as a sort of 'victory'. Disney KNOWS they screwed up with like so much of this park and they are trying to correct it. Honestly that's all I want. I would like to not have a PP altogether, but that's not realistic and besides, I do LOOOOVE Screamin' .
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Going against Walt's old principles where he has been noted to NEVER wanting a Disney park to be what PP is today!<< Please provide a source for this assertion.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan From "The Unauthorized Biography of Walt Disney: Magic Man", pub. Simon & Simon, page 304... >>During an interview with Walter Winchell in 1959, Walt became visiblly upset. "It all started with a mouse," Walt said. "But if, after I'm gone, anyone at my company builds anything themed to a seaside amusement pier, well, I just don't want that. I mean, I'd be angry. Really, really angry. Oh, how I hate seaside amusement piers. I hate them so!!! And I NEVER want a Disney park to have an area themed to a seaside amusement pier, you can bet your boots on that! It's one of my oldest principles." <<
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan (Simon & Simon is a very small publishing house, not known for attention to detail in catching typos.)
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<All you keep talking about is Screamin', which is fine if that's all you can find. I third my point.>> Seriously CStephens, are you saying the entire Route 66 area, which is a part of PP, as some grand themactic achievement on Disney's part that people just doesn't get outside (apparently) a few? Seriously, most of it really is just BASIC theme park stuff!! Yeah, like a poster said, people are going to see different things. One man's junk is another man's treasure, I got it, but the difference is you can put the ENTIRE area in Magic Mountain, completely AS IS and no one would know the difference. Okay, the Mickey head is a little odd lol. But seriously, for ALLLL the talk that PP is some interesting Disney eye candy when you look reeeeaaaally hard, it's still the blandest, dullest, uninteresting thing in Disney's history of theme park building since 1955. Again, I would LOVE to see someone put any area of DL in some other non Disney (or even Universal) theme park and see how much it will stick out like a sore thumb! That's why I laugh when people try to say over and over again say things like, 'Well Dumbo is just a souped up spinner.' E-X-A-C-T-L-Y!!! They took something basic, gave it a little *Disney Magic*, put it in a highly themed area that complements it and that makes it all difference!! That's the e-n-t-i-r-e point. You put 'Dumbo' anywhere in KBF and believe me, that thing won't come close to fitting ANYWHERE in that park. The design of it, the fact it's a DISNEY character, the music from the film that plays when it spins all says *PROPERTY OF DISNEY* through and through. THAT'S what we're talking about here. Try the EXACT same thing with the 'Orange Stinger' for example at PP exactly as it is now and try to fit it anywhere else at a non Disney theme park, ANY theme park, and ask yourself if it can fit well in that theme park? I will say a 100 to 1, it probably will have no problems. Again, THAT is what we are talkng about here!! Remember that word, 'off the shelf' we use to use over and over. Well, that's what we are talking about here. Like I said in my original post, yes, DL has spinners, roller coasters, merry go rounds and etc, but you can not include them in the same breath you can so many of the same attractions in DCA. Splash Mountain is a dressed up log ride, but there is no way in hell you can interchange that ride at another park....now how about GRR, 100% AS IS? Uh, yep!!! You added a few country bears AA's, a specific story and etc, then no, it gets muuuch harder, but no one did that and hence you have a very generic, off the shelf, raft ride. That's the difference here. Again, why is this so hard to understand when we talk about these differences??? Don't kid yourselves, outside of HPB, so much of the attractions and theming in DCA barely counts as anything more than generic. At least DL was nice enough to 'disguise' their carny stuff...DCA didn't even bother with THAT!! I'm not saying that's necessarily a BAD thing, but if you have to walk around PP litterally LOOKING for something that specifically screams *Disney* just to say, 'A ha, there it is!' then DL must overwarp people's brains since the second you walk under that tunnel, there is not a question where you are. If you like PP, FINE!! If you like DCA, again, FINE!!! But, please, stop making these silly posts that a ride like 'Peter Pan' is no different than some regular carnival ride. Sure, I guess when you strip the AA's, the music, the beautiful set pieces, colorful whimsy props, dialouge and painted back drops, then I guess it's just like any carny ride in the 50's. Take the thing COMPLETELY out of FL that adds to it uniqueness and I guess then, it's almost good enough to be anywhere else in the world. Seriously, stop it, please stop!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>The design of it, the fact it's a DISNEY character, the music from the film that plays when it spins all says *PROPERTY OF DISNEY* through and through.<< How does Big Thunder Mountain Railroad or the Matterhorn support this theory? I'm just askin'...
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<So ... if you hear lines like "Oh here we go again" ..... it's older posters who think the only people who come to LP are us same old settled posters, and seem to forget .... LP isn't ALL the same old posters day in and day out.>> Yep, 100% true OC_Dean! That's sort of my tongue-in-cheek earlier post was kinda of suggesting earlier. So many of us have been here SOOO freaking long, we kind of forget about 99.9999% of people who A. Has NEVER posted here before and B. Has maybe JUST experienced DCA for the first time themselves and want to talk about it on a message board. It can kind of tell you how much of a life many of **us** don't have here when a new poster comes in all freash and just want to talk about things many of us have been talking about for YEARS!!! The fact is, DCA isn't very old, right? so, for MANY people it's still a spanking new park and those issues are very new for them. If you were there on Feb. 7, 2001 and have over 5,000+ postings here since, then well, I guess it's a little dfferent from YOUR perspective. But, please, don't just roll your eyes, say, 'oh lord, not again' expecting EVERYONE has talked about these issues ad nasum like all of us. If anything, just choose not to click on it, NO ONE is forcing you to talk about the fact DCA doesn't have queue's like DL for the 200th time, are they? Just a thought .
Originally Posted By WorldDisney >>The design of it, the fact it's a DISNEY character, the music from the film that plays when it spins all says *PROPERTY OF DISNEY* through and through.<< <<How does Big Thunder Mountain Railroad or the Matterhorn support this theory? I'm just askin'...>> Simple, I have YET to see any place in the world where a roller is themed to a runaway mine train or a bobsled coasting through the a Swiss mountian, period. I get what you are saying, but these are classic Disney rides. The FACT that someone themed a rollercoaster to a mine train and a rollercoaster inside a swiss mountain is what makes DL far and beyond any other theme park I seen (and I seen quite a few ). There is nowhere in the world **I'm** aware of that has these elements (okay, sadly Nara Dreamland had their copy of 'Matterhorn' and everytime I remember riding it, I still need to shower ). That's my entire point. These are basically rollercoasters, but Disney has spunned them uniquely different that would like VERY strange in a KBF or MM. Star Tours is a simulator, but how many simulator rides have remotely anything CLOSE to the queue ST does? Where are THERE AA's of CP30 and R2D2? I have not seen anything close to the complete level of what ST has done that others just can't compare too and that makes it unique. Everything about that ride says, "Only in Disneyland" and it's all about Star Wars lol. There are simulator rides....and then there is Star Tours. Now, take the 'less themed' stuff like Kali Rapids in DAK or the ferris wheel in DCA. Besides maybe 1 or 2 elements, those things can fit in ANYWHERE and you wouldn't know the difference because frankly that stuff is so generic you would never have a clue it came from a Disney park unless someone told you it did. Can you say the same about SM, BTM or Matterhorn?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt These arguments get weirder and weirder each time the topic of DCA or PP and Walt Disney comes up here. "Simple, I have YET to see any place in the world where a roller is themed to a runaway mine train or a bobsled coasting through the a Swiss mountian, period." BTW, I’m curious to know where there is a coaster exactly like California Screamin’. You know… a steel coaster themed to look like a woody complete with an on-board sound track, a magnetic launch over water, and a vertical loop. Seems pretty "Disney" to me.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Hans, did I **USE** Screamin' in my argument? I didn't say the ENTIRE freaking park!! I'm talking about all the ones that simply STAND OUT!!!! The problem is there is ALOT that stands out, speciffically PP. Seriously, don't kid yourself.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<These arguments get weirder and weirder each time the topic of DCA or PP and Walt Disney comes up here.>> And exaclty how did these arguments get weirder? This is the EXACT same stuff I been talking about for the last freaking 6 years!!!! PP isn't themed like a Disney park, the stuff is interchangable, honestly I think that's all most of us are saying!! I think it IS true, we been on here so long, we are getting alheismers and losing our eyesight lol. ;D
