Originally Posted By Roger55 And that "seaside" amusement park happens to be 15 miles inland from the closest sea! Now THAT'S what you call IMAGINATIVE!!!
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "You gotta admit Hans, he got you GOOD with that "who cares" come back!" No, not really. This isn't a game. Besides, he/she never answered my question, which is typical of people who cannot support their arguments with logical and reasoned responses.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>"Walt Disney hated cheap looking carnival attractions or boardwalks." Where did you read that Walt Disney "hated" these kinds of attractions?<< There are so many sources for this assertion that I hardly know where to start. I will cite one, from Bob Thomas' Walt Disney, An American Original. On page 241 it says: "His [Walt's] most depressing experience was seeing Coney Island. It was so battered and tawdry and the ride operators were so hostile that Walt felt a momentary urge to abandon the idea of an amusement park." There are many, many other quotes from other sources. It is true that Walt's negative reaction was not toward traditional parks per se, but rather the kind of cheap looking carnivals and boardwalks that were prevalent at the time he was designing Disneyland. >>Much of what was in Fantasyland circa 1955 through 1982 was cheap looking carnival type attractions.<< No, no, no. By today's standards, we may look at Disneyland's early attractions in this way. But by the standards of 1955, they were not in any way "cheap looking carnival type attractions." To quote again from Bob Thomas (page 13): "The rides will be like nothing you've ever seen in an amusement park before." Thomas notes that these words were spoken by Walt himself, on an early visit to the Disneyland site.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Good points Dug and I wish people would get this through their heads. This ISN'T 1955!!!! Why do people compare shoddy parks like DCA and HKDL based on what something that opened 50 years with a MUCH smaller budget and every resource exhausted?? The money and resources Walt Disney had in the 1950's is NOTHING that can be compared to what the Walt Disney COMPANY has today!! Besides the fact that stuff, 50 YEARS ago, was still ahead of most things then, DL was the first ever to come around. There were no 'fans' or 10+ parks back then, it was only one and luckily he suceeded. The company today is in a faaar different place to not only KNOW what their customers want and expect out the theme parks, they have the resources to build the kinds of experiences people are use to. The only excuse they had with these parks was create a budget that was absurdly too small and couldn't be original or imaginative enough to build anything more than a couple of carnival rides which takes up a scary amount of the attraction count. Once again, to keep comparing things that happened and built in 1955 to what they do NOW is beyound ridiculous!
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I still have to say though, what is really different between say Dumbo and the Golden Zepher? Or King Triton's and the Carousel in DL. In fact DCA's version is far more creative.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^In all honety Dave, not much . But, I made a post about it in this thread (can't remember where, but if you have time, look for it ), but Dumbo CAN'T be placed anywhere else. The entire creation of that ride is very specific to the land and story of the area and THAT'S what makes it special. Sure, you can argue the exact same thing for Golden Zepher and you'll be right, but people don't look at it that way. You don't look at Golden Zepher the same you look at Dumbo, there is nothing there that tells a story about anything. It doesn't pull you in at ALL. Its nice enough, some GREAT history behind it (but you have to be a theme park nerd like us to even KNOW that ), but it just looks like another carnival ride, true? Matter of fact, I think BECAUSE DCA seem so storyless and characterless with so many of their attractions, that's why they built FFF what, like 6 months later? WOW! Again, those attractions aren't all that good either, but at least you're looking at Heimlech fat face . And once again, those rides say "ONLY IN DCA". Not the same for the Orange Stinger .
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo I here you WD, but I really feel like Triton's Carousel is really a work of art and people can imagine being on the back of a sea creature as much as on the back of a flying elephant (you don't sit in a sea lion or have a joystick).
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "His [Walt's] most depressing experience was seeing Coney Island. It was so battered and tawdry and the ride operators were so hostile that Walt felt a momentary urge to abandon the idea of an amusement park." You're reading too much into that quote. It doesn't tell me that Walt Disney hated cheap looking carnival attractions or boardwalks. It tells me that he hated run-down Coney Island. "The rides will be like nothing you've ever seen in an amusement park before." Thomas notes that these words were spoken by Walt himself, on an early visit to the Disneyland site. Yeah, there were some things there that people had never seen. But, there were also rides in the park that people had seen before. Are you trying to tell me that Walt Disney invented the merry-go-round?
Originally Posted By GhostHost2 I will give the PP lovers, the fact that Triton's Carousel is cool. "No, not really. This isn't a game. Besides, he/she never answered my question, which is typical of people who cannot support their arguments with logical and reasoned responses." What question? I don't feel like looking through the thread.
Originally Posted By cstephens Wow, someone says they're not interested in drinking, and they get insulted for it and told they *should* be drinking. If you're not interested in drinking, no one should try to make you feel like you should. /cs
Originally Posted By dlport >>And you would think that they're simply expressing their opinion. But many of us found out that wasn't usually the case. That's how it was back in 2001, and as far as I can tell, nothing's changed. Those who hated DCA were absolutely telling those of us who didn't share their feelings that we shouldn't just not like DCA, we should in fact hate it, that we were betraying Walt's vision and principals, and they made insulting and degrading remarks about our character and were condescendingly comparing us to little children who'd rather play with the cardboard box than the cool toy that the box comes in. All this because we simply had a different opinion about a theme park.<< So well stated. The problem was not the discussions about DCA, it was that some of the folks who did not like DCA chose to attack those who did. Oh, they never did it directly, but does anyone else remember the terms, "apologist", or "disney-colored glasses" being used? I sure do, and it drove many intelligent and well-spoken folks away from these Boards. This thread has been more tame, which is encouraging, but I sense much of the same arguments.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>You're reading too much into that quote. It doesn't tell me that Walt Disney hated cheap looking carnival attractions or boardwalks. It tells me that he hated run-down Coney Island.<< As I had noted, this was just a single example of many statements attributed to Walt over the years in which he expressed antipathy for the traditional amusement park as it was in the early 1950s. Or (as I said before), "It is true that Walt's negative reaction was not toward traditional parks per se, but rather the kind of cheap looking carnivals and boardwalks that were prevalent at the time he was designing Disneyland." >>Yeah, there were some things there that people had never seen. But, there were also rides in the park that people had seen before. Are you trying to tell me that Walt Disney invented the merry-go-round?<< No, and why would you even ask? I was replying to the statement, "Much of what was in Fantasyland circa 1955 through 1982 was cheap looking carnival type attractions." And again, I find it odd that so many who ardently defend every aspect of DCA find it necessary to do so at the expense of more well received Disney parks.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<I here you WD, but I really feel like Triton's Carousel is really a work of art and people can imagine being on the back of a sea creature as much as on the back of a flying elephant (you don't sit in a sea lion or have a joystick).>> Oh I agree, I think Triton's Carousel is very nice . I've never been on it though, but I don't think I been on a Merry go round since I was 14 . Again though, it DOES seem odd to me there needs be two merry go rounds in the resort, BUT, TDR also has two as well which I also don't get, but TDS's carousel is VERY cool though .
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "And again, I find it odd that so many who ardently defend every aspect of DCA find it necessary to do so at the expense of more well received Disney parks." Again, you're reading too much into what others are saying. No one is defending DCA. I'm simply asking the poster who claime that Walt Disney said he hated carnival rides to show us some proof. So far nothing has been produced to support that argument. Meanwhile, King Arthur's Carousel (a ride which originated in a cheap carnival type park in Canada) continues to spin at Disneyland.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney <<And again, I find it odd that so many who ardently defend every aspect of DCA find it necessary to do so at the expense of more well received Disney parks.>> That's what I don't get either. I understand people are trying to make comparisons and say, 'look, DL isn't all that differnet when you look closely enough', but I'm sorry, yes it is. To compare a mere few attractions in a park that has over 50 of them to a place where the MAJORITY of the attractions in DCA are a rehashing of KBF and MM is a little silly to compare to me, but that's STRICTLY my opinion ;D.
Originally Posted By WorldDisney ^^Hans, you kill me more ;D. Seriously dude, just COUNT the number of attractions in DCA and tell me how many are pretty close to similar attractions to MM and KBF? Here, I'll do it for you: GRR Boardwalk Games Golden Zephyr Jumpin Jellyfish King Triton's carousel Maliboomer MM Orange Stinger Sun Wheel Redwood Creek Challenge (closer to Camp snoopy's kids area than TSI ) Then add the FFF attractions: Flick's Flyers Chew chew train Tuck and Roll buggies Francis Ladybug Boogie Seriously, just replace those simple rides with Bug Bunny or Snoopy them and all the same stuff at KBF and MM. Now, if you DON'T include the FFF stuff, then okay, there are less, but honestly those attractions are as by-the-numbers you can get, just with cute bug theming on them. That's 14 attractions in a park that has a total of 27 attractions. I just got all of this out of the guide book. What am I missing here?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney And if you notice, I DIDN'T include Screamin on that list although part of me wants to. Yeah, its a steel coaster designed to look a woodie keeps it off the list, but in all honesty, it's no different than any other roller coaster that you will find at Magic Mountain or KBF. It would fit right in no problem. Once again, I can't say that for SM, BTM and Matterhorn, not by a long shot. But, the 'themeing' saves it as being a little more unique though .
Originally Posted By WorldDisney It's Sunday, I had a looong night of partying at friend's bday party last night and sitting here trying to collect myself lol. So, JUST for comparison, I'm going to list ALL the DL attractions I feel are basically off the shelf stuff: Mad Tea Party Dumbo (I think that's been mentioned a few times ) DLRR (ONLY because all these parks have trains, but DL is definitely the best) Gadget's Go Coaster Astro Obrbitor Autopia (yes, BETTER than most, but still basically motorized cars on a track) King Arther Carrousel Main Street Trolly Monorail (Disney came first, true, but MM does have one ) Goofy Bounce House That's a total of 10, Ten attractions in total. These are attractions, that, with a little retheming can easily fit with what you can find in a Six Flaggs park. Trust me, I thought there were more lol (and I'm sure some people will quarrel some of those I pointed out are too richly themed to go in them) but I honestly can't think of anymore and I just combed through the DL map, but the attractions at DL are VERY unique, I'm actually amazed now just looking through them all how unique they really are. I thought I would find the most in FL, but only two. There just isn't a Casey Jr train experience in KBF. As simple as Tarzan treehouse is, you will be hard pressed to find anything like it at Great America . Show me a place that has anything like Mickey Mouse house with the level of theming and details. Even the the B and C stuff has a strong identity that connects them to a larger story. Again, look at those numbers. DCA has 14 freakin attractions in a park that has less than 30! DL has 50+ attractions, but less than 20% of them are ANYTHING you would find in those other parks. That's amazing in my book and it speaks to the originality of that park and why a park like DCA is a joke to most of the Disney fans out there. (But, if anyone else can argue there are more, I'm all ears )
Originally Posted By Mr X No way would I count the monorail on that list. Sure it might be dated "now", and standard for amusement parks...but when Disney opened the thing it wasn't just futuristic for an amusement park (and a first), it was futuristic PERIOD. An example for the world, though unfortunately only Japan followed up on making that stuff real world. So that would bring the list down to 9. Gotta say though, even the train and the horsedrawn trolley weren't anything you ever really saw in any amusement parks EVER at the time the place opened (except maybe a little toy kiddie train, not a REAL one). And when you see that kinda stuff now, it's pretty much just others copying Disney. Which would bring your list to 7, but I suppose 9 is fair. Monorail, no way.
