Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<I don't think parental notification laws will do what the creators of the laws hope: They won't really slow down the rate of abortion, they won't make families who don't talk about sex now suddenly begin a dialogue, and they won't have any real impact on encouraging teens to engage in safe sex or "think twice" about it.>> <<All that said, I am very uncomfortable with the idea of an underage child getting a medical procedure of any kind without the parents knowing. This places the government in a role that was never intended and opens up a whole host of slippery slope issues.>> So where do you stand? You think parents should not be notified before a 14 year old has an abortion?
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<Disclaimer- I don't have kids. But if I did, I'd like for a daughter of mine to tell me what was going on, you can be sure of that. However, if she wanted to abort, I would never, ever stop her.>> Again, we agree. Hmm. If my daughter got pregnant I dont think I would try to talk her out of anything either. But if she wanted to keep it or abort it, I want to be there for her to help her through such a life changing decision.
Originally Posted By idleHands I'm surprised that the main issue for this law has not been raised: incest. Fact: most minors who are sexually abused know their abuser, and much of the time, it's a relative from blood or marriage. And for many abused young women, that abuse sometimes results in pregnancy. What do you think would happen to those girls who got pregnant from their uncle or stepfather or close family friend abusing them, if their parents were notified? If the girl admits to the abuse, they will most likely call her a liar and not believe it. Then they'll begin treating her like a whore, believing that she sleeps around with boys indiscriminately, and probably take steps to "educate" her about having unprotected sex, when in reality, she's a victim of some selfish unfeeling a**hole. Girls need the ability to have abortions without parental notification in order to protect those girls who got pregnant from abusers who are close to the family. It's for their own personal safety. Most of these girls cannot stop the abuse (blackmail and shame are almost always involved), nor do they feel safe enough to step forward and accuse their abusers, especially when they are relatives. This is why sexual abusers try to pick relatives or close friends' children as their victims, because it's easier to control them and keep them silent, because of the psychological dynamics of the relationships involved. And because of those dynamics, it's almost impossible for girls to step forward and discuss what's going on. That's why sexual abuse at this level continues to this day, and always will.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon If you read the original post: <<I think, with certain built in safeguards, that any female under the age of 17 should be required to have parental notification before having an abortion performed.>> Safegards are built in to the law regarding the aforementioned issue. In this situation steps can be taken to keep the abuser out of the situation. But because pedophiles are abusing/impregnating their own family members I dont feel that I should be forced to relenquish the right to be involved with this type of decision. And maybe if there were tougher laws on sexual predators with mandatory sentencing it would be less of a problem. <<What do you think would happen to those girls who got pregnant from their uncle or stepfather or close family friend abusing them, if their parents were notified? If the girl admits to the abuse, they will most likely call her a liar and not believe it. Then they'll begin treating her like a whore, believing that she sleeps around with boys indiscriminately, and probably take steps to "educate" her about having unprotected sex, when in reality, she's a victim of some selfish unfeeling a**hole.>> So you would prefer that the abused child be able to "quietly" get an abortion so that they could go home and have nobody know about it? Then what? The abuse continues?
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe <<But you know what? They both say they would do it again. The bonds between the parents and children is unshakeable.>> So do drug users.
Originally Posted By mele So, how does the notification supposedly work? Does the clinic send a letter to the parents? Does the parent have to come in and talk with the dr. or nurse? Does the parent have to sign a consent form? I'm curious how a child who has notified their parents of their intent and the parent doesn't want the child to get the abortion. Doesn't notification include some sort of "permission slip" or something? Does anyone know how this actually works?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss It says on the link Dirk posted: "Parental consent generally means that at least one of the minor's parent(s) or legal guardian must give written or verbal permission to the physician in order to perform the minor's abortion. Parental notification generally means that the physician must send a letter within a specific time period to the parent(s) or legal guardian of the minor seeking an abortion to notify them of her intent."
Originally Posted By mele Hm, most kids I knew were pretty good at forging their parents signatures. I wonder how hard it is to get around. I wouldn't believe the signature on the paper was real unless the parent was with the child at the abortion. I might even ask to check ID to see if the signatures were the same. The problem with parental notification/permission is that parents can force their children to have babies even if the child wants an abortion. That's part of the whole problem. As a parent, I would want to know what my child was doing, but as a child of a really nutso, controlling mom, I worry about other kids in that situation. I know my mom would have forced me to have the baby (along with punishing me for having sex) and force me to keep the baby. (I also know she wouldn't have helped me much with the baby or with much of anything else.) I'm really torn about this issue.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <a href="http://www.house.gov/apps/list/press/al07_davis/abortion.html" target="_blank">http://www.house.gov/apps/list /press/al07_davis/abortion.html</a> "In cases where the pregnancy may have been caused by an abusive parent, there are bypass measures in place that allow the minor to seek permission from a judge for an exemption for notification."
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I think parents should be notified. I am on the fence about consent though. On the one hand, it is the girl's body and her life, on the other, she is a minor who doesn't have the right to vote or drink... why should she have the right to an abortion?
Originally Posted By barboy So, let's see here...... a minor doesn't have the capacity/wisdom/understanding for egaging in sex but has the capacity/wisdom/understanding for terminating a pregnancy.
Originally Posted By idleHands <<"In cases where the pregnancy may have been caused by an abusive parent, there are bypass measures in place that allow the minor to seek permission from a judge for an exemption for notification.">> And that infamous anti-abortion judge in Texas, I believe (I cannot remember her name) was making the girls wait sooooo long for those exceptions, that most of the time, they were forced to carry to full term anyway. That little clause was deliberately added by anti-abortion politicians, so that anti-abortion judges could extend the pregnancies past the first and second trimesters by dragging their feet on the rulings, thereby making abortion basically prohibitive.
Originally Posted By idleHands "On the one hand, it is the girl's body and her life, on the other, she is a minor who doesn't have the right to vote or drink... why should she have the right to an abortion?" Because voting and drinking are choices. No one pulls out a knife and physically threatens a girl into alcoholism. But sexual abuse is not voluntarily. And pregnancy from sexual abuse does occur.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss You make it sound like all teen prenancies are cause by sexual abuse.
Originally Posted By mele So, a child lacking in capacity/wisdom/understanding would make a good mother?
Originally Posted By trekkeruss I think it's a question of whether the minor has the capacity/wisdom/understanding to make either choice, that's why I am for parental notification, but on the fence about consent.
Originally Posted By idleHands "You make it sound like all teen prenancies are cause by sexual abuse." I knew someone would misread my initial post, and draw this conclusion. I did NOT suggest any such thing. All I stated was that most children who are sexually abused know who their abusers are. Fact. And many of those abusers (some stats suggest as high as 43%) are relatives or close friends of the family. And girls who are sexually abused by relatives or friends of the family, do get pregnant. It happens. And it shouldn't matter what percentage of teen pregnancies result from sexual abuse by a relative or close family friend, in order to decide whether or not they need parental notification for abortion outweighs the need for privacy protection. The fact is, girls get sexually abused. And most of those girls who are abused are being abused by someone they know. And those abusers have some kind of important connection to their family, enough so that the girls do not feel safe to acknowledge the abuse to another adult, in an effort to stop it. Parental notification requirements are a further added layer of complication to these abused girls with unwanted pregnancies. They deserve their privacy protected, no matter what.
Originally Posted By barboy So, a child lacking in capacity/wisdom/understanding would make a good mother? Maybe, maybe not....one could never know unless it is tested on a case by case basis. Sometimes a parent rises to the occasion while other times a parent fails miserably....yes?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder FWIW.... of all the cases I've seen over the last five years that involved kids being born to kids under the age of 18, and there have been around 20-25 I'd guess, maybe 2-3 didn't end up as foster care cases.
