Originally Posted By mele But who gets to decide? I think the person with the baby growing inside of them should have the ultimate say in whether or not they have the baby. If they've gone to get an abortion, chances are, they've already decided that they can't. It is true, however, that sometimes girls/women have abortions because they think their families wouldn't approve or help them them when in fact, their families would be there for them. There really is no "right" answer here. That is why I believe so strongly in sex education and contraception.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss <<it shouldn't matter what percentage of teen pregnancies result from sexual abuse by a relative or close family friend, in order to decide whether or not they need parental notification for abortion outweighs the need for privacy protection.>> Hmmm... I don't think sexual abuse should be a privacy issue, but a criminal one.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "But who gets to decide? I think the person with the baby growing inside of them should have the ultimate say in whether or not they have the baby. If they've gone to get an abortion, chances are, they've already decided that they can't." The pregnant one, no question at all.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon I will try to put this another way: I made a choice to have a child with my wife or sig. other. My child is 14. (hypothetical) She gets pregnant by her boyfriend. She is still my child and my responsibility. Regardless of the choice she makes in regards to keeping the baby I am still the parent. Since I am responsibile for her child in addition to her, I feel notification is in order. If she gets drunk and crashes a car into someone elses property I am responsible because the law regards her as my responsibility.
Originally Posted By mele I think we all understand that. I think we all also hope that we are never in this situation and that we hope our children would talk with us. But in reality, many of these kids come from really screwed up families (or at least families where the parents are preoccupied with their own little lives and ignore their children). I won't go so far as to blame a parent for not knowing everything their kids are up to. Kids can be tricky and can fool even the most dedicated parent. But in a lot of these cases, the parents are out to lunch and it seems almost a little late in the game to be worried about their input in the situation. Not in all cases, but in a lot. One would hope this would wake them up, but even this could just make things worse for the child. Often adults will be mad for awhile and then go back to being completely clueless. Sad but true.
Originally Posted By idleHands "Hmmm... I don't think sexual abuse should be a privacy issue, but a criminal one." Until you've actually been a victim of sexual abuse, especially as a minor, you cannot relate. Most minors who are being sexually abused, especially by relatives, are not psychologically able to speak up against their abusers. Ask any therapist as to why. But it is NOT as cut and dry as you make it sound. These girls are rarely in a position to accuse their abusers and press criminal charges. Period. And until you've actually been in that position, as a minor being abused by an adult with some level of control over you, be it directly as a parent or grandparent, or indirectly through close relationships, you have no idea what you're suggesting.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon So because some parents are "out to lunch" regarding the relationship with their daughters, or a small percentage of pregnant kids have been impregnated by family members you think all parents should be denied the right of notification? I cannot more strongly dis-agree. All of the problems regarding teen pregnancy need to be addressed and worked on WITHOUT parents being denied the right of being a parent. Here is another twist on notification: Husbands are ALSO being denied rights. It happened to me with my first wife. Heres the story in short form. I get married at age 22. After about 6 months we agree to start a family after much discussion. She goes off birth control. We work on things about 2 months and Whammo. Shes pregnant. Talk about excited. We tell all our families. Things are great. I come home from work one day and wifes gone. No note. Hmm. Its 5:00 pm. She rolls in around 9:00 and when she sees me she bursts out crying. She had gotten scared about finances and decided on a whim to terminate the pregnancy. She neglected to mention her change of heart because she knew how excited I was about having a child. I was devastated. I couldnt even tell my family the truth. I told them she mis-carried. We were divorced within 6 months. I believe married couples should have the agreement of both partners for an abortion. Men have zero rights in this regard.
Originally Posted By mele I didn't say that I didn't believe in parental notification at all. I was just stating a fact about a lot of families.
Originally Posted By mele I'm sorry your wife did that but there is never, ever going to be a time where I give my husband the right to make me keep a pregnancy. If you think gay marriage will end marriages in this country, allowing a husband to decide about his wife's pregnancy will virtually END marriage in America.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<I'm sorry your wife did that but there is never, ever going to be a time where I give my husband the right to make me keep a pregnancy.>> I dont think its my right do decide that either. But as a married couple that consciously decided to have a child, I feel spousal notification should be required. Without my consent she wouldnt have gotten pregnant with my child. Its my child too. If I was an idiot and impregnated a woman out of wedlock and she kept the child I would surely be required to pay child support. As far as being the ultimate decision maker regarding pregnancy: No way. Should I be notified if my wife decides to have an abortion: Yes. (imo)
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I'm really on the fence on this one. I can see both sides - and I'm not saying that to be weasly (you all know I normally have no problem stating what I think), but in this case I really do think both sides have merit. Not on consent. That should always be up the the pregnant woman. But notification I'm not sure on. I see all Dirk's points, and think they're valid. But I'll throw in one more "con" point that I haven't seen brought up: quite a few of these young women, if their parents were to know they were having sex and gotten pregnant, would be disowned and literally thrown out of the house. I'm sure we'd like to believe all parents are the kind that the daughter can talk to and will be supportive (and I'm sure that's true of everyone here), but it's not true of all the parents out there. Some of these girls would be literally out on the street, and probably on public assistance (baby or not), and their relationship with their parents ruptured for years or even for life because of one mistake. So that makes me lean towards no requirement for notification; if the girl in question feels she can go to her parents for support and help, she will - if she doesn't, she won't. Yet I see Dirk's points about the parents' rights and responsibilities vis a vis a minor child. So I'm torn.
Originally Posted By barboy Why are we allowing children to make not just adult like decisions but decisions regarding life(or the prospect of human life). For those who want to counter with "woman have an absolute right to abortion" or "girls might be shunned by their families" ect. ---- these responses don't address my rhetorical question. I fully understand the logistics behind keeping abortion available. There are very compelling reasons why we need to protect this sacred right to woman(although personally I am an abolutionist). But giving CHILDREN this kind of decision making I just can't understand. Based on legal theory and justification I got it--it makes sense but aside from that the whole notion of children deciding the fate of human life is ludicrous.
Originally Posted By jonvn "And who are you to say what is worse mentally on a person?" I didn't say it was. I said it can be. Besides, this is a medical procedure. And parents really don't have the final say when it comes to medical procedures. Much like Christian Scientists really are not allowed to keep their children from seeing doctors, at some point the state steps in and does not allow the parent to be in control of a child, if it is deemed to be possibly harmful to that child. Now, whether the parent should be notified or not regarding an abortion that has already happened? If it is considered that such a rule would potentially stop someone from seeking the medical help they need, then no, it should not be required.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<Besides, this is a medical procedure. And parents really don't have the final say when it comes to medical procedures.>> That is a crazy statement. Abortion is ELECTIVE surgery. <<Much like Christian Scientists really are not allowed to keep their children from seeing doctors, at some point the state steps in and does not allow the parent to be in control of a child, if it is deemed to be possibly harmful to that child.>> Another crazy statement. <a href="http://www.valleyskeptic.com/tyrell_1.htm" target="_blank">http://www.valleyskeptic.com/t yrell_1.htm</a> It happens all the time.
Originally Posted By jonvn "That is a crazy statement. Abortion is ELECTIVE surgery." You may think it is crazy, but it is the truth. Parents have limited rights when it comes to their children's medical activities. "It happens all the time." Just because it happens all the time doesn't mean it is not illegal, and the courts can step in to stop it. If they know about it. BTW, that article was about someone in Canada.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "That is a crazy statement. Abortion is ELECTIVE surgery." Not always.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I have always found it odd (and I'm being polite in choosing that word) that my kids can't take a painkiller at school without my permission, yet they can have an abortion not only without my permission, but without even telling me.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe Children make mistakes. Most of them dont have to pay for them the rest of their lives. Why should a child that makes a mistake, such has having a sex and getting pregnant, have to be handicapped for the rest of their lives. This is a growing pain and abortion is a solution. Maybe not the best solution in some peoples eyes but it is still a solution. And I am willing to bet just about anything that if a girl has to go through an abortion at a young age she will remember it and not make the mistake of getting pregnant when she is not ready.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<Children make mistakes. Most of them dont have to pay for them the rest of their lives. Why should a child that makes a mistake, such has having a sex and getting pregnant, have to be handicapped for the rest of their lives. This is a growing pain and abortion is a solution.>> I am absolutely reeling from that statement. With all due respect, are you serious? Child pregnancy is a "growing pain"? Abortion is a solution to that growing pain? As a parent responsible in every way for my child, morally and financially, I feel my right as a parent is being infringed upon when doctors can perform an abortion on her without notifying me. Like it or not, abortion is a major medical procedure that can affect the lives of women of legal age, let alone children. To be left out of the loop for ANY reason seems criminal to me.
