Originally Posted By Shooba Very good post (#80) Hyper. I think I look at parental notification kind of the same way I look at abortion. I don't like abortion, specifically as birth control. There's really no excuse in this day & age to have unprotected sex. Abortion is still necesscary, as people do make mistakes and there are pregnancies that result from abuse or rape, etc. Ultimately, there would be too many negative consequences if abortion were outlawed. Similarly, I don't like the idea of teenagers going through this without telling their parents, but I still think that option should be available. If a teenage doesn't want to tell their parents, they might have good reason. I'd rather let them have that right, than deal with the potential negative repurcussions if their parents aren't understanding. The best course of action, is probably for parents to foster a relationship in which their children are always going to talk to them about serious issues/decisions such as this. Ultimately, whether or not a parent is informed, might come down to the nature of the relationship they've forged with their child. The law won't always help you.
Originally Posted By HyperTyper Thanks! >>> If a teenage doesn't want to tell their parents, they might have good reason. Shouldn't an adult (i.e. a judge) be the one to make that determination? In a teenager's mind, "My parents will be mad" is reason enough to keep anything secret, no matter how small or serious. Immature people (child and adult) will take the easy way out of any situation, regardless of who is involved or who will be hurt. Heck yeah, the folks will be mad! That's how parents are when their kids rub crayon the walls or have sex. That doesn't mean angry or disappointed parents are unfit or undeserving of involvement. It puzzzles me to see parental notification oppponents generalize all pregnant girls as mature enough to sever parenental involvement, and their parents as automatically worthy of being suspected and challenged. Unless a child or advocate can demonstrate, with proof, that a child's parents have through abuse, neglect or incompetence forfeited their parental rights, parents must to be just as involved in a child's "sex life" as any doctor, nurse or school counselor. Any attempt to usurp that parental authority undermines and indeed negates the importance and role of parenthood itself, and it's wrong. Society and the family should be working together, not one cutting-out the other out of the picture. The major reason for people who oppose parental consent laws is that some parents will say actually withold permission for an abortion. Abortion advocates want to eliminate that authority. They think they know what's better. The common argument that a girl who does not want to tell her parents will resort to drastic and dangerous measures to abort her baby is a dramatically worst-case-scenario ... one that, again, would be a non-issue if (as in my argument) the state and parents saw to it that teenage girls are adequately supervised, and not left with time to themselves to do ridiculously dangerous things. Any concerns about abusive parenting should have been addressed long before a teenage pregnancy. (We won't sever parental rights after years of abusive alcoholism, beating or sexual abuse, but we'll do it if the daughter wants an abortion. Huh?!?) Society and especially abortion advocates have failed to portray girls' options fairly or accurately. Abortion is often depicted as THE solution that will get girls' lives back on track most quickly. Little or nothing is said of the health risks of LEGAL abortion. Nothing is said in the high school health class or the family planning clinic of the guilt and emotional anguish many girls experience post-abortion ... things that arise from inside, and not from anti-abortion propaganda. Adoption is STILL portrayed as a cold, cruel option, which severs natural ties and is less 'responsible' than abortion. We speak of adoption placement as "giving up" a child ... as if giving a baby a chance at a healthy, happy family life is somehow abdicating one's motherly duty to raise or dispose of it! Nothing is said of the great relief and quiet satisfaction many young girls have experienced at turning a negative into a blessing for a child and his/her prepared and loving adoptive parents. Adoption continues to carry a stigma, even when the all-around benefits to all parties are overwhelmingly positive. Granted, not all parents are reasonable or responsible. But the law should not be structured so that immature teens, especially under stress, are the ones deciding whether their own parents are fit to parent them. If off-the-rails parents are sometimes guilty of acting purely in self-interest, surely we can agree that teenage girls can just as easily do the same thing. Rather than working against parents, clinicians, counselors and courts ought to be working WITH pregnant teens and their parents, even if that means helping girls face the music when it comes time to tell mom and dad. In extreme circumstances, competent judges ought to be making the call, not immature teens, school counselors or abortion providers, and the criteria for overriding parental authority must be high and clear. >>> The law won't always help you. The law can't always SAVE us, but it should ALWAYS help. The law can't help parents or families when it ignores or negates them.
Originally Posted By barboy In case some don't know pregnacy from rape or incest is extremely low relative to consensual sex pregnancies. I wanted to say this because too many people rally behind this battle cry as if it is an epidemic---it's a serious concern but most definitely not an epidemic.
Originally Posted By woody >>> If a teenage doesn't want to tell their parents, they might have good reason.<<< This is complete rationalization of liberal abortion advocacy. It is dumb and stupid to assume kids know what they are doing.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Any concerns about abusive parenting should have been addressed long before a teenage pregnancy.<< "Should have" is right. That's easy to say, but in an abusive family, not always easy to do. An abusive parent will instill such fear into a child that they will never tell authorities that abuse is happening. They'll even assist in hiding the abuse. This is not news. Heck, adults in abusive relationships, often to their dying day, are so frightened that they are unable to seek help or get out of the relationship. In most cases, parental notification would be appropriate and could be helpful. But I think we must make some allowances for truly dysfunctional situations that would be made even worse for the teenager if the parents were notified of their sexual activity. If teens should be treated like teens, then we must, as a society, do what we can to protect the ones that might be beaten or worse because of parental notification. It's important not to project the image of the happy nuclear family, able to work together to solve their problems together, where that image does not fit.
Originally Posted By Shooba >>This is complete rationalization of liberal abortion advocacy. It is dumb and stupid to assume kids know what they are doing.<< Geez, dumb AND stupid? Not just one or the other? Can't make a point without putdowns eh?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Common sense as usual, 2oony. I liked much of HT's initial post, and I see a lot of teens today who obviously would have benefitted from parenting that was a lot more involved... but we need to recognize that that perfect world of absolute parental involvement is not one we live in today; as HT says himself, not even among conservative or religious parents. Meanwhile, unplanned pregancies happen every day. I'm still on the fence about mandatory notification; perhaps "yes" should be the default unless the girl can convince the doctor there's good reason not to? I don't know - still thinkin' about this one.
Originally Posted By woody >>I liked much of HT's initial post, and I see a lot of teens today who obviously would have benefitted from parenting that was a lot more involved... but we need to recognize that that perfect world of absolute parental involvement is not one we live in today; as HT says himself, not even among conservative or religious parents. Meanwhile, unplanned pregancies happen every day.<< So in the non-ideal world, kids get to decide. What an amazing logical world we're in!!!
Originally Posted By Dabob2 If you read my post, I said that perhaps "yes" should be the default, but if the girl could convince the authorities that telling her parents would put her in danger, etc., then she could be exempted.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Perhaps in those cases where a minor feels endangered, she could ask for some sort of protective custody?
Originally Posted By schoolsinger I don’t understand why some people on this board are for parental notification, but not for consent. Don’t the two go hand in hand? Isn’t the whole point of parental notification to allow the parent to veto their child’s decision to abort? How do you think a pro-life parent would feel if they were to get a call from a doctor saying that their daughter is at the clinic and is about to get an abortion, yet when the parent tries the tell the doctor to not go through with the killing, the abortion happens anyway?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "How do you think a pro-life parent would feel if they were to get a call from a doctor saying that their daughter is at the clinic and is about to get an abortion, yet when the parent tries the tell the doctor to not go through with the killing, the abortion happens anyway?" The killing? Hmm, and where do you stand? It's the child's body, the killing goes forward.
Originally Posted By schoolsinger Would it make you feel better if I say “termination of a pregnancy†instead of killing?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Would it make you feel better if I say “termination of a pregnancy†instead of killing?" Not really. Look, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, really. But I just don't see how any parent can force their child to go through with a pregnancy the child doesn't want. Ever.
Originally Posted By schoolsinger If you were told that your daughter was about to kill your grandchild, wouldn’t you want to stop it?
