Originally Posted By barboy ///It's true--there are huge amounts of wasted space because of all the water./// I wouldn't call it 'wasted' at all. The waterways are welcomed visuals and are the lifeblood of the overall theme.
Originally Posted By The Goddess Mara I say "wasted" in terms of real estate on which future attractions can be built. One of the reasons that the park draws fewer visitors than TDL is because it has so few attractions by comparison.
Originally Posted By barboy I see. But there is still vast amounts of space that could be tapped for future attractions irrespective of the waterways. Dl Anaheim shows what can be done with very limited space--- that park is densely populated with attractions(which I like).
Originally Posted By barboy Considering we're talking about a theme park, sure there is--- maybe I'm just used to Dl Anaheim since it's my home Disney park and attractions are packed like sardines. Lost River Delta(left of IJ if you face the temple), the area between Port Discovery/Volcano/Am. Waterfront, the ruins of Med. Harbor, Am. Waterfront has open space near the border of the Med. Harbor
Originally Posted By Bob Paris I would like to see the idea Tony Baxtr had a while ago which is more attractions that move around and through each other. The potential for this is huge in a place like TDS where the place is highly themed. A show building could incorporate two or more attractions that both make use of the hyper theming then the ride vehicles could move outside where "show" is maintained due to the amount of theming outside. I always liked Tony's idea of a vast Indy cavern where the train could rattle by on a(seemingly)rickety old bridge while Indy riders look down and to a nearby waterway and see JC boats languidly moving through the scene and into the ruins of an old temple. I could clearly see this in my mind and it's these kinds of mega show buildings that make use of several attractions that I believe DIsney could do incredibly!
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Yeah, I love the idea of a complex show building that houses multiple attractions. That's what Grizzly River Run was supposed to be. A river ride and a train ride. But it was scaled back.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris Yeah everytime I think of that concept I also think of Western River Expedition. I dunno - there's something about seeing all these ride vehicles moving around each other that just creates this intense kinetic atmosphere. Kinda greater than the sum of its parts thing. I guess this is my "Disney thing". Some people like the characters and shows(weird to me), it's theme park design, layout and architecture that makes me go all giddy.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones It's really expensive though, and even an idealist like me can see that, haha.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "Some people like the characters and shows(weird to me), it's theme park design, layout and architecture that makes me go all giddy." Yeah, I cannot stand the walk around characters. They seem creepy to me. It's all about the things you talk about. I will take a recreation of a New Orleans bayou over posing with Minnie Mouse any day.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones "there's something about seeing all these ride vehicles moving around each other that just creates this intense kinetic atmosphere." This can be done in lands too. Rivers of America used to have the Mark Twain, the Columbia, the canoes, the rafts, and the keel boats all at the same time. It was a very busy river. The place felt alive. Tomorrowland used to have monorails, a skyway, people movers, subs, and autopia cars all at the same time. It was a very busy future! Though things have declined, and were restored over the years, nothing will ever beat when all of these things were running at full tilt.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones Damn, I keep thinking of new things to say. Movement is a staple of Disney atmosphere. The DCA Red Cars will bring some of that to DCA 2.0. It's that kind of atmosphere that makes Disney parks what they are, and it was a concept as early as the Main St. vehicles. DisneySea has its own version of the Disneyland Railroad, but they are steam boats that "circle" the park's waterway. There's also an electric train connecting two lands. There's also vehicles in the American Waterfront. But not even TDS can compare to the movement of the old Rivers of America or old Tomorrowland.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "Yeah, I cannot stand the walk around characters. They seem creepy to me." AWESOME!!! I was starting to feel like an outsider here - especially with the likes of Malin around!!! LOL!!! I just find the IDEA of them to be weird. We KNOW it's NOT Mickey Mouse or Goofy. We KNOW it's a bored Anaheim teenager getting minimum wage to jump around in a rubberhead. It just strikes me as really odd whan I see grown adults posing with this giant felt thing. It's like - grow the frak up!!! Add to that the whole autograph culture(YAY I got Juan from Mexico's scrawl that says "Pluto" in really bad sharpie ink!!! GO ME!!!")and the fact that character meets are now about as spontaneous as meeting your bank manager to arrange a mortgage(growing up I always got the impression characters just strolled around DL. You would watch the opening of TWWoD and see Alice and the White Rabbit on the Carousel with kids and I assumed characters just got on attractions with you at random. It seemed charming and very spontaneous). These days there are official meet and greets and it just feels so staged and managed. Add to that the whole commando parent who wants X amount of face time with the characters with cameras and so on and it just rubs me really the wrong way. Oh and don't even get me started on character dining. The LAST thing I want to see at 8am when I have dragged myself down to breakfast is some goon in a rubberhead sticking his nose into my coffee. Violence WILL ensue. Anyway - yes, it is about themed environments and immersion.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones My parents bought me the obligatory autograph book when I was a kid. I had exactly two signatures in it. It was more for my parents to take a picture of me with the giant rat. I wanted to go on rides, plain and simple. The characters did not interest me. As a kid I wanted to go on Matterhorn, Pirates, etc. over and over again.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***One of the reasons that the park draws fewer visitors than TDL is because it has so few attractions by comparison.*** Is that one of the reasons for Epcot, Disney Studios, Animal Kingdom, DCA, and the Paris Studios too? None of THEM manage to draw as many visitors as the place with the castle nearby either.
Originally Posted By Bob Paris "Tomorrowland used to have monorails, a skyway, people movers, subs, and autopia cars all at the same time. It was a very busy future!" YES!!!!!!! My first trip to DL ever was in 2001 and I was almost in mourning for TL. As a kid, i had the old viewmasters of the parks and this is this lovely overhead shot of the monorail over the lagoon with yellow subs below and people moviers circling around. That one shot alone just got me SO wired for DL. I COMPLETELY understand that kinetic energy thing. It's all these different(yet thematically fitting)vehicles moving around, through, over and under each other that just creates this ENERGY. I cannot explain it any more. Thus you can understand my grief when I went to DL for the first time and TL was, in my words spoken there at the time, "a ghost town". It was really very very sad.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Bob and Spokker - we are kindred!!! That is exactly what made me a Disney park obsessive. It was never the toons, not even as a kid.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo My wife and duaghter are in to the character thing. For me, I love theme emersion - decor, costumes, music, knock your socks off only in a disney park attractions, and live entertainment in theme (e.g. barber shop quartet in Main Street, African Drummers in AL, a jazz band in NOS). To me, that is the awesomeness of Disney that will get me to spend huge amounts of money and fly around the globe.
Originally Posted By SpokkerJones I sometimes underestimate the importance of live entertainment. TDS has a lot of that. In corners of the park there always seemed to be something going on, whether it was a big production or just a few guys playing some music.
